Kreuznach Schneider

[12pmc]

I am looking to buy a 210mm 5.6F APO Schneider - I notice on auctions sites that some of these lens are labeled: Kreuznach Schneider.... and some just Schneider...

Is there any difference in the lens design / type / performance or is does the inclusion of Kreuznach mean nothing?

Thanks
Peter

[IanG]

Most of us just use the name Schneider, although the company is actually Schneider Kreuznach. So there's no difference at all.

Ian

[Ken Lee]

The company was founded in the town of Bad Kreuznach, Germany... hence the name.

[mdarnton]

Schneider is the manufacturer, Kreuznach is the city. So you're telling us it's a Ford from Detroit, and apo is some variation of a sedan model. What you really should be paying attention to is the model, which also will be written on the lens, like Apo-Symmar, for instance. Symmar is the actual lens design is what it sounds like from your description, with the modifier APO to show which of the several Symmar iterations it might be-- like a GT-Mustang, Ford, Detroit. If you ask for a Schneider lens, that could be about anything and Kreuznach means even less--Detroit.

So: 210mm f5.6 APO-Symmar, by Schneider, from Kreuznach. If it's a Symmar, it's only going to be from Schneider, and only from Kreuznach (with the possible exception of something called a Krishna version, which no one seems to have satisfactorily described exactly where those were made, at least with any authority as far as I've noticed), so those two parts of the description are basically irrelevant. Unless you're looking at a Krishna version, and then, who knows? A Korean copy, maybe? :-)

[early Dagor-type] Symmar, 6.8
[convertible] Symmar, 5.6
Symmar-S
APO-Symmar
Super-Symmar
Super-Symmar XL
Makro- (Macro-) Symmar
Have I missed any Symmar versions, anyone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_Kreuznach

[Keith Pitman]

Super Symmar HM

[Bob Salomon]

Schneider is the manufacturer, Kreuznach is the city. So you're telling us it's a Ford from Detroit, and apo is some variation of a sedan model. What you really should be paying attention to is the model, which also will be written on the lens, like Apo-Symmar, for instance. Symmar is the actual lens design is what it sounds like from your description, with the modifier APO to show which of the several Symmar iterations it might be-- like a GT-Mustang, Ford, Detroit. If you ask for a Schneider lens, that could be about anything and Kreuznach means even less--Detroit.

So: 210mm f5.6 APO-Symmar, by Schneider, from Kreuznach. If it's a Symmar, it's only going to be from Schneider, and only from Kreuznach (with the possible exception of something called a Krishna version, which no one seems to have satisfactorily described exactly where those were made, at least with any authority as far as I've noticed), so those two parts of the description are basically irrelevant. Unless you're looking at a Krishna version, and then, who knows? A Korean copy, maybe? :-)

[early Dagor-type] Symmar, 6.8
[convertible] Symmar, 5.6
Symmar-S
APO-Symmar
Super-Symmar
Super-Symmar XL
Makro- (Macro-) Symmar
Have I missed any Symmar versions, anyone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_Kreuznach

Macro.

[Mark Sampson]

Schneider f/5.6 Symmar lenses were made from c.1955-1972. They are known as 'convertible' Symmars because you can remove the front element group and have a longer focal length lens. They are easily identified by a second f/stop/focal length marking, in green, on the front ring.
Schneider Symmar-S lenses superseded these, and were single-coated from c.1972-77. Later lenses were multicoated, and are labelled as such. Replaced by the Apo-Symmar lens line, c.1991.
There's a lot more to know about the various lenses labelled 'Symmar', but that's all I am certain of now. I've used lenses from all the series that i've mentioned, they are all very good (to say the least).

[Leigh]

...with the modifier APO to show which of the several Symmar iterations it might be--

Sorry, not true.

Regular photographic lenses are designed so that two colors will focus at the same point on the image plane. Those colors are traditionally GREEN and BLUE. This was done because early films were not sensitive to RED.

An apochromatic (APO) lens is corrected so that three colors focus at the same point on the image plane. Those colors were traditionally RED, GREEN, and BLUE, although there has been a slight shift in the definition in recent years.

An APO design may differ significantly from a non-APO lens of the same name because different glass is used.

- Leigh

[Paul Ewins]

[early Dagor-type] Symmar, 6.8
[convertible] Symmar, 5.6
Symmar-S
APO-Symmar
Super-Symmar
Super-Symmar XL
Makro- (Macro-) Symmar
Have I missed any Symmar versions, anyone?

The Dagor style was introduced around 1919/20, there was an earlier Symmar prior to that time that was still a Doppel Anastigmat but had a variety of maximum apertures. There is also the Symmar EX which I believe was a special model for the Japanese market but is probably just an APO Symmar. The final version of the Symmar was the APO Symmar-L.

The Symmar Krishna is probably just a tax loophole product where the final assembly occurred in Korea. Apart from the printing they look the same as a German made version. There is also the Caltar S-II which was Calumet's private label version of the Symmar-S. Some of these were relabelled as Orbit S-II, presumably to sell as a set with Calumet's Orbit cameras. None of the Krishnas, Caltars or Orbits I have seen have serial numbers even though they would have been assigned with a number at the Schneider factory. Another oddity was a Deardorf Symmar (Dagor style) that had a Kodak style serial number.

[12pmc]

Thank you all