Film Holder Issue, Please Help Diagnose

[asf]

Had this problem twice now

Modern Lisco holders, Ilford HP5 8x10, camera has new bellows, no other frames from same setup had the problem

First time only this frame



Looks like light leak and the film shifted in the holder, see red arrows
Also the top is way out of focus where the bottom stayed in focus, this seems to mean the film wasn't seated properly (again all other frames had no problems, all in focus, nothing changed between exposures).

On this shoot I exposed both sides of every holder but only 1 sheet had a problem


THEN

on this shoot I got 2 sheets with MIRRORED leaks




mostly identical problems to first shoot, leaks, out of focus at top, apparent double exposure of rebate edge, but this time mirrored on both sides of a holder

I've done an inspection of all the holders used and can see no problems.

I did have 2 different inexperienced interns on the shoots, perhaps they mis-handled a holder somehow? Grabbed one by the middle or top instead of the sides? Could something like that cause a leak by the light trap and move the film enough to shift out of its seat?

The HP5 does shift a tiny bit in the holders but not enough where I can easily get it to come out from under the rails.

Ideas?

[LabRat]

Sometimes film when exposed to changes of temp/humidity will slightly buckle until it reaches equilibrium and relaxes to it's flatness... That's why the second shot might be fine, as it had the chance to relax while sitting on the other side... Easing film into the shooting environment will help by keeping it there (instead of, for instance, leaving the inside of a building, or car, etc and exposing very soon after)... Big problem while it's raining/hot/humid/cold/damp/dry etc...

Today's thinner sheet film bases might scan better, but tends to flop around more in the holder, while processing, etc...

Steve K

[asf]

Thanks LabRat

Yes, I've had those kinds of film pops happen before can't imagine it's the case this time - dry environments both shoots, case had been open and outside for a long enough time before shooting, but it's possible that could have caused it, IDK

I am assuming on the 2nd shoot it was the same film holder both sides (and same holder as first shoot) but I can't be absolutely sure either

The thin film base and it's very slight room to move in the holder does lead me to think it could have popped, or the vacuum effect of pulling the slide could have had enough force to pull it out of its seat

This hasn't happened with FP4, which I've also shot on both shoots, only HP5

Is double stick tape the solution?

[asf]

Mr LabRat/Steve

Do you think all the problems evidenced here can be explained by the film popping?

[LabRat]

Sometimes before shooting pulling the dark slide and re-inserting, then letting it sit a spell before shooting will give it an even dose of the environment it will be shooting in, and a chance to relax... There is probably more air leakage near the flap, so that might explain the OOF thing happening on that end of the holder... The slight double edge shadow on that rail end says pop movement on the notch side...

Just slow down the process a little more so the film has a chance to relax...

Steve K

[asf]

Thanks Steve

[asf]

I thought that could be a part of it also, actually after the first shoot I was sure that was the problem

I inserted on both

I loaded all film

On the 2nd shoot the intern handed me the holders and we were moving quickly

[asf]

I did check frequently on the 2nd shoot if the holders were fully seated and didn't see a problem

I didn't check carefully every time so can't be sure it didn't happen

[dentkimterry]

Don't know what kind of camera your using but I had some negatives like that with my Deardorff 8x10. Figured out that one corner of the back wasn't clicked in place when I switched it from horizontal to vertical. Light leaked in at that point. Pics looked just like yours. I check the back very carefully now!
Terry

[LabRat]

It also does look like there might be some fogging like Greg said... Look carefully at the insertion end while the holder is full & empty and try to find if there is a gap or seating funny...

I have also noticed when using some 50's era holders that when used with today's thinner based films that sometimes the flap might over-depress as the holders were made for a thicker film and might not seal correctly when inserted, AND not hold that edge as firmly... When a holder is loaded, run you finger or straight edge on the ends of the flap and see if they are slightly recessed... If so, putting a spacer strip of Scotch tape under the flap where it meets the film will take up the slack... (I have restored old holders that this had been done to way back when and replaced the tape that was added then...)

Steve K