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Thread: Need quick answer about visiting a US Navy Base

  1. #21

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    Re: Need quick answer about visiting a US Navy Base

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    When I was 13, way back in 1954, one of my presents was a new Minox system. Another was a trip with my father's New England sales representative. We started off from my home in Darien, CT and headed to New London and Groton where he had scheduled his first stops. That was quite a long stretch as this was before the CT Thruway had been built so it was on the Merritt Parkway, the Wilbur Cross and the Post Road. When we finally got their we were passing the submarine base and decided to stop so I could take some pictures, through the fence, of the subs with my Minox. While doing this the rep stayed in his car on the side of the road with his motor running and I at 13 was busy taking pictures of the subs with my Minox. After just a few minutes two Navy jeeps pulled up and bracketed us and 4 Shore Patrolmen wanted to know what I was doing. So I told them that " I was taking pictures of the subs" they then wanted to know why I was doing it with a Minox? So we told them that it was my birthday present and was the only camera that I had for the trip. After a couple of hours of questions and answers and some conversations between the SP's and their superiors, we were finally allowed to go on our way, after I gave them the film in the camera and all other rolls that we had with us, exposed or unexposed. Have you ever tried to buy more Minox film in mom and pop camera stores in the 50s? We couldn't find any.
    Well, Bob, you were shooting a spy camera! I guess you were like me and looked like you knew what you were doing.

  2. #22

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    Re: Need quick answer about visiting a US Navy Base

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    When I was 13, way back in 1954, one of my presents was a new Minox system. Another was a trip with my father's New England sales representative. We started off from my home in Darien, CT and headed to New London and Groton where he had scheduled his first stops. That was quite a long stretch as this was before the CT Thruway had been built so it was on the Merritt Parkway, the Wilbur Cross and the Post Road. When we finally got their we were passing the submarine base and decided to stop so I could take some pictures, through the fence, of the subs with my Minox. While doing this the rep stayed in his car on the side of the road with his motor running and I at 13 was busy taking pictures of the subs with my Minox. After just a few minutes two Navy jeeps pulled up and bracketed us and 4 Shore Patrolmen wanted to know what I was doing. So I told them that " I was taking pictures of the subs" they then wanted to know why I was doing it with a Minox? So we told them that it was my birthday present and was the only camera that I had for the trip. After a couple of hours of questions and answers and some conversations between the SP's and their superiors, we were finally allowed to go on our way, after I gave them the film in the camera and all other rolls that we had with us, exposed or unexposed. Have you ever tried to buy more Minox film in mom and pop camera stores in the 50s? We couldn't find any.
    For me, the camera I owned that attracted the MOST attention (more than ANY LF camera on huge tripods) was a Minox B... If I was shooting it anywhere, there was always someone pointing at me while shooting it, even at an airport, the security cops watching the security inspector going through my stuff from 40 feet away were staring at it, and you could ALWAYS read someone's lips saying, "Look, a spy camera!!!"... And film was a PIA to find, even in NYC... Had to give up shooting it (would have loved having a good P&S digital as a constant carry camera back then)... People thought it was evil... :-0

    Steve K

  3. #23

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    Re: Need quick answer about visiting a US Navy Base

    Quote Originally Posted by LabRat View Post
    For me, the camera I owned that attracted the MOST attention (more than ANY LF camera on huge tripods) was a Minox B... If I was shooting it anywhere, there was always someone pointing at me while shooting it, even at an airport, the security cops watching the security inspector going through my stuff from 40 feet away were staring at it, and you could ALWAYS read someone's lips saying, "Look, a spy camera!!!"... And film was a PIA to find, even in NYC... Had to give up shooting it (would have loved having a good P&S digital as a constant carry camera back then)... People thought it was evil... :-0

    Steve K
    You shouldn't have had any problem finding film back then at Ken Hansen but you could have also easily have gotten film at the Minox lab on LI.

  4. #24

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    Re: Need quick answer about visiting a US Navy Base

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    You shouldn't have had any problem finding film back then at Ken Hansen but you could have also easily have gotten film at the Minox lab on LI.
    The film was usually on "backorder" when needed (often for a few months), and the only other sources were basement re-loads that were usually badly scratched... I had better luck at Fishkin Bros who had it more often than not... Even the Minox lab often didn't have ANY!!! (Agfa didn't seem too motivated to reliably distribute in the USA)

    Steve K

  5. #25

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    Re: Need quick answer about visiting a US Navy Base

    As a former Navy vet, and person who has worked on many bases for many, many years it's fine to take basic photographs of basic things. The Submarine Memorial at Pearl Harbor, The Rocket Sled at Holloman, the tower at Offutt, graduations at NTTC Orlando are all fine. The idea you'll be thrown in the brig for having a cell phone or camera on base is VERY....laughable. Now if you try to go taking pictures of some of the active bomb disposal group training, or the nuclear launch panels in some silo, that's a different matter.

    There are hudreds of civilians working on most bases. All have phones and some have cameras. The military doesnt care.

  6. #26
    sepiareverb's Avatar
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    Re: Need quick answer about visiting a US Navy Base

    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    As a former Navy vet, and person who has worked on many bases for many, many years it's fine to take basic photographs of basic things...
    Just not a fence at the USS Constitution Museum.

    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    ...The military doesnt care.
    Well, apparently not if you look like me instead of a vet or republican.

  7. #27

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    Re: Need quick answer about visiting a US Navy Base

    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    As a former Navy vet, and person who has worked on many bases for many, many years it's fine to take basic photographs of basic things. The Submarine Memorial at Pearl Harbor, The Rocket Sled at Holloman, the tower at Offutt, graduations at NTTC Orlando are all fine. The idea you'll be thrown in the brig for having a cell phone or camera on base is VERY....laughable. Now if you try to go taking pictures of some of the active bomb disposal group training, or the nuclear launch panels in some silo, that's a different matter.

    There are hudreds of civilians working on most bases. All have phones and some have cameras. The military doesnt care.
    I beg to differ. Maybe the military didn't care so much before 9/11, but just try that now. Civilian and military members are told to abide by 18 USC Section 795, as Leigh cited. If they see you pointing your cell phone camera at facilities, equipment, military personnel, or security features at any military base you will spend some time with the police. For those of you who think the wording in law is ambiguous, here is the exact citation:

    (a) Whenever, in the interests of national defense, the President defines certain vital military and naval installations or equipment as requiring protection against the general dissemination of information relative thereto, it shall be unlawful to make any photograph, sketch, picture, drawing, map, or graphical representation of such vital military and naval installations or equipment without first obtaining permission of the commanding officer of the military or naval post, camp, or station, or naval vessels, military and naval aircraft, and any separate military or naval command concerned, or higher authority, and promptly submitting the product obtained to such commanding officer or higher authority for censorship or such other action as he may deem necessary.

    (b) Whoever violates this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
    (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 737; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

  8. #28

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    Re: Need quick answer about visiting a US Navy Base

    Quote Originally Posted by djdister View Post
    I beg to differ. Maybe the military didn't care so much before 9/11, but just try that now. Civilian and military members are told to abide by 18 USC Section 795, as Leigh cited. If they see you pointing your cell phone camera at facilities, equipment, military personnel, or security features at any military base you will spend some time with the police. For those of you who think the wording in law is ambiguous, here is the exact citation:

    (a) Whenever, in the interests of national defense, the President defines certain vital military and naval installations or equipment as requiring protection against the general dissemination of information relative thereto, it shall be unlawful to make any photograph, sketch, picture, drawing, map, or graphical representation of such vital military and naval installations or equipment without first obtaining permission of the commanding officer of the military or naval post, camp, or station, or naval vessels, military and naval aircraft, and any separate military or naval command concerned, or higher authority, and promptly submitting the product obtained to such commanding officer or higher authority for censorship or such other action as he may deem necessary.

    (b) Whoever violates this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
    (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 737; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)
    Ok, being in the service currently and having been for 18 yrs now (so before 9/11), I feel the need to say this, the folks who enforce this law are people themselves and will inquire as to why one is taking an image at a particular location and make a judgement call as to whether or not to allow one to continue photographing, to ask to put you gear away or to detain you and to confiscate your gear for further investigation.

    I have photographed on bases in both uniform and out of uniform, for official events, personal projects and actual commissioned images to promote the Navy. I have photographed on deployments of even sensitive things, in war zones and even a plane crash at FOB Dwyer (Google EA1 Miller, FOB Dwyer). The point I am making is that as long as you are respectful to the law enforcement agent and do as they say you are to do, things will go fine. I have been asked by a few base police to quickly finish my shot or to not point my camera in a certain direction and this includes in base housing. Please remember, actual enforcement is conducted by folks who are interpreting the situation visually and by what you say (spirit of the law vs enforcement of the law)

    R/
    Dave

  9. #29
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    Re: Need quick answer about visiting a US Navy Base

    I agree with the Midway tour. It is right across the bay from the base and you can watch the carriers and the air ops. Go on a Friday and watch a military retirement on the flight deck of the Midway. The Midway has become a project of many retired sailors who lovingly care for her. In someways she is better preserved than the actual fleet. Then take the ferry across to Coronado. Eat at a fine sidewalk cafe. The base itself is never the best memory, but the community around and the awesome hardware, and of course your fellow shipmates.


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  10. #30

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    Re: Need quick answer about visiting a US Navy Base

    Quote Originally Posted by djdister View Post
    I beg to differ. Maybe the military didn't care so much before 9/11, but just try that now. Civilian and military members are told to abide by 18 USC Section 795, as Leigh cited. If they see you pointing your cell phone camera at facilities, equipment, military personnel, or security features at any military base you will spend some time with the police. For those of you who think the wording in law is ambiguous, here is the exact citation:

    (a) Whenever, in the interests of national defense, the President defines certain vital military and naval installations or equipment as requiring protection against the general dissemination of information relative thereto, it shall be unlawful to make any photograph, sketch, picture, drawing, map, or graphical representation of such vital military and naval installations or equipment without first obtaining permission of the commanding officer of the military or naval post, camp, or station, or naval vessels, military and naval aircraft, and any separate military or naval command concerned, or higher authority, and promptly submitting the product obtained to such commanding officer or higher authority for censorship or such other action as he may deem necessary.

    (b) Whoever violates this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
    (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 737; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

    Read it closer. "Whenever, in the interests of national defense, the President defines certain vital military and naval installations or equipment as requiring protection..." The President hasn't designated ALL bases and the fence around the USS Constitution. This is an ancient law, that came out during the Cold War and nuclear testing era. By the way, I was at a base in Washington last week. Taking photos.

    The people that have problems photographing things are those looking for problems. You act like you need a talking to....you're going to get talked to. You act like a proud patriot, they'll leave you alone.

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