Ebony or Arca-Swiss or ??

[Robert McDonald]

Thanks to all who have replied thus far. I made a mistake that most know is a mistake - I meant Ebony SV45U not 45SU. Also forgot to say my film size is 4x5. In regard to a message by Jim Rice, yes that is how I put the Wisner into a wide angle configuration. I tilt the back standard back almost as far as it will go (I leave a little movement for tilt), then bring the front standard approx. parallel. I even put some saw cuts in the back standard "box" that will let the standards get a few mm closer. In this configuration one can use a 75mm (Schnneider Super Angulon 5.6), if tilt is minimal. But one cannot use a 58mm in this configuration.

[Scott Fleming]

or .....

Well, I balked at the price of a new AS and bought a mint Toyo VX 125 for $2300. They come up for sale not infrequently. I'm pretty happy with it. It will take a 58mm lens on a flat board. The bellows can be all but tied in a knot. Everything is nicely geared but for tilt. It's very compact and comes in under 6 pounds. It will take a 300mm lense and up to a 400 tele. It is reasonably rigid but for a bit of side to side flex at the mount although not in a way prone to vibration or shaking. It sets up in under a minute and I can mount it and rough focus in another minute. The geared rise fall and shift make composing a breeze. Unless I win the lottery I can't see needing any other camera. The only fault I can think of is the detente in the front tilt which makes a two or three degree front tilt a bit of a hassle however once you are out of the detente the friction of the tilt mechanism is just right and will hold any angle while you fiddle with it before locking down.

[neil poulsen]

I have the classic f with the 300mm optical bench and 15cm rails. I also have, and highly recommend, the leather bag bellows. I have the regular sized front standard. I don't have the smaller 6x9 front with a 4x5 rear standard.

Stowing: With the above optical bench, one can collapse the two rails to coincide with the bench and then roll the camera entirely onto one of the rails. (I use the rear rail.) With the camera on the rail, the rail and camera together can be easily removed as a single entity and placed in a backpack. It's best to loosen the swing and tilt on both the front and and back to avoid over-stressing these mechanisms.

Size: I have a cloth backpack with foam interior. I've cut rectangular holes for the camera and different lenses, accessories, etc. My camera fits snugly into an opening that's 6" deep by 11.5" long by 8" wide. After placing the camera in this opening, I put the bench into it's own thick cloth sack cut to size and place it diagonally on top of the camera. The thick cloth keeps the bench from scratching the camera. So, the entire camera fits into the above sized opening.

Setup: It takes me about 90 seconds to either stow or set up the camera up. I've attached a quick release plate to the bench, so fixing the camera onto the tripod takes minimal time.

You like longer lenses. You might want to check to make sure that the standard bellows is long enough. You may need a rail that's longer. For example, you could swap one of the 15cm rails for a 30cm rail. I have the long 600mm bellows, and it works fine along with the wide angle leather bellows. The bag bellows will handle any lens up to a 180mm or a 210mm.

If I ever drift towards a different camera, it'll be to dramtically cut down the weight, like a 4lbs camera, perhaps a 6x9, with smaller lenses, small pack, etc. But in it's weight class, I like the Arca a lot.

[Jeffrey Scott]

I say Ebony! I have a 45SU after owning or using a great many makes and models of both filed and monorail cameras. You will not be dissapointed.

[Donald Hutton]

I have an Ebony SV45U and have owned an Arca Swiss F-line field, an Ebony SW45 and a Toyo VX125. I am of the opinion that for most purposes, the SV45U with the universal bellows is an extremely capable camera. You can certainly use it with lots of movement with an 80mm lens; all the way out to a 450mm. If you mostly use lenses between say an 80 and 360, it's a great camera. Due to some constraints with very wide lenses there are better cameras out there if you shoot extensively with super wides (Toyo VX125 is fantastic); Ebony SW45 is also great. However, you can happily use a 58mm on the SV45U with some care.

I found the Arca bellows cut-off inconvenient - 180mm or less, the leather bag bellows were fine; anything longer I needed the other bellows. So you have to carry both sets of bellows. And you spend quite a bit of time swapping them. The Ebony with the univeral bellows works for every lens from a 58mm (on a flat lensboard) out to a 720mmT. I found the Arca very fast to set-up - folding cameras can actually take longer - I never timed it, but I wouldn't think the Ebony has an advantage over the Arca here. I was also more comfortable with walking around with the Arca on the end of the tripod than I am with the Ebony. The Ebony is, however, much more compact and a bit lighter. I really like the assymetrical tilt and swing (those who have never used it do not know what they are missing) - probably the single biggest feature of this very over featured camera. The Arca is a little better for using very wide angle lenses. However, if you want to shoot mainly architecture, I'd look at the Toyo VX125 (maybe the Ebony SW45 too - but it is a little limited). I finally ended up with two cameras - my venerable SV45U which is my go everywhere camera. When I shoot architecture, I use a Toyo VX125 (sold my first one and ended up buying another a few months on!).

It sounds like you mostly shoot landscapes. I would not hesitate to recommend the SV45U - I think it offers significant advantages over the Arca. I never had the inclination to sell the Ebony while I owned the Arca; I felt no pangs parting with the Arca. I just never really got that attached to it. As a tool it worked fine where for my purposes the SV45U works justs little better.

[paul owen]

Hi Robert. An excellent reply to your posting! AS USUAL! There is a great deal of useful recommendation here and as usual the general consensus of opinion is that BOTH Arca-Swiss and Ebony will give you what you want. The choice boils down to whether you want to use a metal or a wooden camera. Both have their own advantages and disadvantages, but both will take photographs! Some of us lean towards wood (nostalgia?) others toward metal (precision?) it is a personal thing. What I would ask is this ... how much "precision" do you need for your type of photography? I personally don't need geared movements with micro-fine adjustments - if I reckon on a tilt being about 5 degrees then I "guesstimate" 5 degrees ... never had a problem with it not being DEADLY accurate - although I don't exactly know how accurate my guess is! I personally think that the place for deadly accuracy is probably limited to the studio for product-type shots - for landscapes it is NOT needed! Therefore, landscape photographers do not NEED the precision of metal cameras! BUT, some WANT it! You seem to have a "leaning" towards wood (Wisner) for whatever (sub-conscious) reason! My advice is if you lean towards wood you do it for a reason so then stick with wood! The "ultimate" wooden camera (without question) is the U2. Expensive? YES! Worth the investment? DEFINITELY! ... Like I'd say anything different

[francisco_5406]

Come on Scott, you bought the Toyo because it is made in Japan, and not France! Admit it.

[Dan Neilson]

Sometimes I'm almost glad that I don't have the kind of money entailed to consider these options, not that I haven't considered them anyway. If I were to consolidate my 4 4X5's and the 8X10 into one camera, these are definitely 2 of the 3 that I would consider.

Take a look at the Layton. (www.laytoncamera.com) I met John Layton las Nov. and had a chance to play a little bit with his demo camera. This thing is super rigid and smooth as silk. I believe that it will handle all of the lenses in your range. Although it seemed heavy to me ( I had a Wisner Pocket Expedition with me), the production weight should be similar to the Ebony or AS.
The price should be competetive with what you are looking at.

From my point of view, I consider these 3 cameras to be a dream. But but even in my dreams, I'm not sure which one comes out on top. Good Luck!

[Robert McDonald]

Thanks again to all who replied. The informative responses has made me come to the conclusion that I need to "play" with the two cameras side by side for a day, but I don't know how I could do this without traveling to a dealer who has both. Any ideas here??

I owe a bit of apology to Jim Rice, as his described method of getting the standards of the Wisner as close as possible is right. I had R. Wisner tell me about that some years ago, but for some reason, I forgot and went back to "dropping the bed". That method, however, still does not allow a 58mm to come into focus. Even if I didn't use lenses shorter than 75mm, I was hoping to get a camera that the back didn't wobble (with a slight pull on my focusing hood) like the Wisner. And, recently, I needed a new knob for the front std. and two phone calls & two e-mails to Wisner produced 0 response.

Robert

[Andre Noble]

Arca Swiss and don't look back.