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Thread: 20х24" enlarger

  1. #11
    Randy Moe's Avatar
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    Re: 20х24" enlarger

    It can be done.

    I used to work with Russian mechanics that could build everything from almost nothing. They taught me a lot.

    I look forward to your success!

  2. #12
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: 20х24" enlarger

    I would be interested in learning more about the final print you imagine.

    at 2 magnification you are at 40 x48 print which is pretty big in my book , this would be for silver gelatin prints?

    I have only seen 20 x24 negative output from Monty McCutchen and it was pretty dam nice if not spectacular, His system is tailored to his needs and I am wondering let alone the printing of a large negative, ( which I think is totally possible, like Drew I would go with a rail system and have concerns on the negative stage ) how intense are your efforts at the camera stage, for my thinking this is where you either get it or you do not.


    Once you have a good neg, well you are dealing with small magnification so your times will be fast, even considering the enlarger lens which I would think should be an APOprocess lens. So making the print is a piece of cake, I once worked on a Lisle Camera with a 20 x24 light box with over 16 bulbs , it was a overhead blow back camera and I can see how by changing the lens configuration it would work.

    So you may want to consider an overhead rail system that Moves the negative stage back and forth from the wall.

  3. #13
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: 20х24" enlarger

    OK. I get it. You want the enlarger capable of convenient relocation. So it should be fairly simple to machine or outright buy adequate laser positioning mounts,
    and very precise distance-measuring lasers have come down dramatically in price in recent years, some with on-board trig functions (something I personally
    lobbied for, for over a decade). Quite doable. I'm still a bit skeptical of going glassless, but it will be interesting to see how that comes out too. Suitable modern barrel process lenses should be easy to acquire. You might even want to keep their original Copal electronic shutters if you want exposure timing even more precise than the on/off function of the LED system itself, provided those shutters are still there. I threw mine all out and only kept the Apo Nikkor lenses per se,
    which would certainly be a contender line of optics for your particular project, though I don't know exactly how long you'll find em. The longest one I have is a
    760, which hypothetically might decently cover 20x24, though not by stringent apo dot repro standards per spec sheet. But longer lenses are out there, along
    with competitor graphics 4-element lenses from Rodenstock etc. I don't want to repeat what has been pointed out on this forum many times before; but these
    lenses are even better at enlargement than regular enlarging lenses if your priority isn't sheer speed, typically just a stop down from their f/9 maximum.

  4. #14
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: 20х24" enlarger

    Their magnification allow's for good printing time with lens aperture, I too am very skeptical about a glassless carrier, I have operated big enlargers and there is a lot of movement of air to cool and a film without glass would be like laundry in the wind.

  5. #15
    mamanton's Avatar
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    Re: 20х24" enlarger

    Quote Originally Posted by jose angel View Post
    It looks to be a funny project. Go ahead!
    I know, it`s mostly for fun. For sure most of us actually shoot LF just for that large amount of fun!
    -----
    BTW, most of my LF negatives (up to 8x10") are perfectly flat after the processing. So if 20x24" lies with the same flatness, if heat is not of an issue a vertical glassless carrier seem reasonable... maybe a large clip on top (magnetic) and a "guided", slightly loaded large clip at the bottom will work... just thinking aloud.
    Yes, definitely that is the most funny project! We'll have a lot of fun ))
    About an easel - thanks for your idea - we are thinking something closely to it.

  6. #16
    mamanton's Avatar
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    Re: 20х24" enlarger

    Quote Originally Posted by plaubel View Post
    Hello, Mamanton,
    this all sounds really great!
    ""Lenses is a big question! I still don't know which exactly lenses we'll use for 11x14, 12x16, 12x20, 16x20 and 20x24''".
    I was really surprised, how this question could be asked from optical specialists like Mr. Heiland and Mr. Kienzle.
    So today, I had to ask Mr. Heiland himself, and I became calm again - every thing seems to be clear to him, like everytime :-)
    Ritchie
    Hallo, Ritchie! Please transfer my kind wishes to Mr. Heiland!
    For sure, he is a great electronic specialist and inventor with a big passion in analogue photography! His products are almost perfect! As a products from Mr. Kienzle, who is a great engineer and specialist in metal work!
    So, lenses are still a big question!
    I've already bought one LOMO 600mm, which should cover 20x24'' just for tests, and to start the work with a lens panels, bellows, e.t.c.

  7. #17
    mamanton's Avatar
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    Re: 20х24" enlarger

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Moe View Post
    It can be done.
    I used to work with Russian mechanics that could build everything from almost nothing. They taught me a lot.
    I look forward to your success!
    Thanks! But in that project I mostly believe in German quality ))
    We'll try to do our best in international cooperation!

  8. #18
    mamanton's Avatar
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    Re: 20х24" enlarger

    Quote Originally Posted by bob carnie View Post
    I would be interested in learning more about the final print you imagine.
    Once you have a good neg, well you are dealing with small magnification so your times will be fast, even considering the enlarger lens which I would think should be an APOprocess lens. So making the print is a piece of cake, I once worked on a Lisle Camera with a 20 x24 light box with over 16 bulbs , it was a overhead blow back camera and I can see how by changing the lens configuration it would work.
    This is a very good question. Let me tell how we even came to the idea of the enlarger 20x24''. We took landscape with an architecture, swamp and trees on the 12x20'' format using the Fine Art 550mm lens. Then we printed the contact, and were very disappointed. First, the sharpness was redundant, as the contrast, and the whole image seemed flat.
    Then one day I met a LF photographer who prints from negatives 8x10'' photographs 16х20'' maximum, and sometimes less. And they were amazing! Of course, he is a great master, but I realized then that not necessarily greatly enlarge from 8x10 negatives. Enough 1.5x - 2x to air and plastic, plus the ability to conveniently use a masks, burning and dodging.
    So, we have a 2,4 meters to 2,4 meters magnetic wall now for the horizontal enlarger 8x10''. But I can imagine that even 30x36'' print from 20x24'' will have a lot of advantages.
    I'm looking for Nikkors and Rodenstocks Apo Process lenses 600, 760, 800, 1000mm. But very few information about them.

  9. #19
    mamanton's Avatar
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    Re: 20х24" enlarger

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    I'm still a bit skeptical of going glassless, but it will be interesting to see how that comes out too. Suitable modern barrel process lenses should be easy to acquire. You might even want to keep their original Copal electronic shutters if you want exposure timing even more precise than the on/off function of the LED system itself, provided those shutters are still there. I threw mine all out and only kept the Apo Nikkor lenses per se,
    which would certainly be a contender line of optics for your particular project, though I don't know exactly how long you'll find em. The longest one I have is a
    760, which hypothetically might decently cover 20x24, though not by stringent apo dot repro standards per spec sheet. But longer lenses are out there, along
    with competitor graphics 4-element lenses from Rodenstock etc. I don't want to repeat what has been pointed out on this forum many times before; but these
    lenses are even better at enlargement than regular enlarging lenses if your priority isn't sheer speed, typically just a stop down from their f/9 maximum.
    Thank you! I'm also still a little bit skeptical of glassless negative carrier, and Mr. Heiland very afraid of glasses because they are very heave and hard to operate with. Plus dust and so on... An he can't sleep very well trying to invent a great option for the glassless negative holder ))
    Modern Heiland LED system switches on and off with an accuracy of 1/100 sec. And we are going to create a big panel of LEDs from different pieces with a possibility to switch of and on some areas for different formats, let me tell for 11x14 - only center light, 16x20 - some more around, and 20x24 - all of them.
    Of course we need different negative glassless masks, but there will be less heat in printing from 8x10 or 11x14 negatives.
    Please let me know if you have any lenses for sale ))

  10. #20
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: 20х24" enlarger

    Those of us who routinely yet precisely enlarge 8x10 film know that the straw that breaks the camel's back is likely to either be depth of field compromises or
    imperfect film flatness at the time of the shot. While the latter can be controlled, and the former by judicious composition selection, going clear up to 20x24 film means that very little in the shot will be truly in focus. The "circle of confusion" becomes a playground of confusion, depending on the degree of enlargement, unless you're talking about flat copy reproduction using vac film positioning. ... Not that this route hasn't been tried before, and that one man's cul de sac is another man's engineering dream vacation to Disneyland. Good luck, and have fun regardless!

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