Originally Posted by
rdenney
Folks, I'm just getting my sea-legs back, and I haven't had the opportunity to see how the FS forum is working with the new rules. Reviewing that over the next few weeks is part of my catchup program. So, let me just make a few general comments on the subject of "moderating" along with reiterating the general philosophy of a sales outlet on a forum like this one:
The sales forum was always a tangential service to regular large-format users who wanted to buy and sell among themselves. It was never intended to be an enterprise site or the core function of this forum. The excessive bumping was favoring those who were selling lots of things aggressively--so many things that it was obvious they were buying things just to sell, not just selling things they once used that had become surplus to their needs. At that point, the sales forum became less about the low-key forum member making an occasional sale, who found themselves drowned out by more aggressive uses of the sales forum, and more about commerce.
Yet we do all benefit from having access to things for sale. So, we have always sought a set of rules that kept the sales forum usable for the forum participant making a casual sale without closing the door completely on those who sell things for more commercial reasons (we once claimed to prohibit all commercial sales, but with uneven enforcement of those who were covert about their commercial intentions). And to do that, we have to trim back the freedoms enjoyed by aggressive and frequent sellers, in return for allowing small-time commercial sellers to come out into the light a bit. But that's how it remains a service to forum members who sell casually as well as buy occasionally. No formula will make everyone happy or meet everyone's needs. Some are content with a no-rules free-for-all, and others would prefer that we eliminate the sales forum altogether. We have done what we can to offend everyone equally (that was a joke; you can laugh).
If we were a commercial site, we would turn the sale forum into an enterprise. But we are not a commercial site and don't want to be. We can't call this a site run by enthusiasts if running it is their day job. Lots of forums have been bought up in recent years--one in which I participate was bought by VerticalScope last year--and when that happens, they are looking for how much they can load each page with ads, and how much they can glean from and resell content. Going to a subscription model would not help--none of us really want to do this as a job and anyone we hired would have a different attitude about it. The forums I've observed that have paid moderation have the same issues we are having, and worse (because those moderators are now influenced by commercial concerns).
In terms of general moderation, some people are attracted to flames, but others are repelled by them. Those who are attracted to flames are most willing to voice their discontent when the flames are extinguished, and those who are repelled by flames are the least willing to complain at all. So, the people who do not enjoy flames just leave, and those who do enjoy them stay, if the moderators don't feel some obligation to the silent majority. We've seen that relationship on this forum for many years. We've allowed, despite repeated interactions, some people to stay because we would rather not ban people who are merely disruptive, especially when they are not breaking the rules overtly. But we know of other people who have specifically left because of those people--and we are sorry that they did so and miss their contribution. Again, that's a matter of trying to find a balance. Benign neglect, which we have attempted to the extent possible (the interpretation of which has certainly varied) doesn't always result in the correct outcome in terms of who decides to leave versus who decides to stay, even assuming agreement on what that correct outcome should be. Remember, the moderators are the waiters. You guys are the cooks. The waiters are often expected to have the fix for food that tastes bad, but they best they can do it take it away quickly when it threatens the health of the diner.
As to declining participation, there are several factors at play, many of which I have noticed in other forums. The biggest is that I think the Age Of Forums is in decline generally. 25 years ago, the only way I could share my enthusiasm for large-format photography was with a few like-minded local friends, and by reading certain magazines devoted to the topic. Then, in the late 90's, a miracle occurred: The Internet made it possible for those engaged in narrow pursuits to interact with one another, and all that demand for interaction that was pent up for years suddenly spilled out. There was a whole generation of photographers (about my age) who embraced that new interaction, and forums on all manner of specialty topics blossomed.
But many of those people have run out of steam, having satiated their appetite for interaction. They said all they had to say, and heard all they cared to hear. Their participation now, if it remains, is often for the sake of maintaining long-standing friendships. Every forum in which I have participated for many years is in decline, even forums on topics that are growing, no matter how they are moderated. The high-end professionals that used to participate do so much less, and the dedicated hobbyists have run out of material. Forums are therefore declining back to what would probably be considered a normal level, if they had existed for the last century instead of the last 20 years.
Another trend is that more and more, people are interacting with the Internet using hand-held devices. The Large Format Photography Forum supports this use by providing and maintaining a Tapatalk interface, and Tapatalk is my usual method of access. But one will not be as prolific when the entry device is two thumbs versus ten fingers.
Then we have the consideration that generations that follow us are less word-oriented (for the most part), for reasons I can speculate about but will not do so here.
Finally, we get to the issue that has already been raised, which is that large-format photography is itself in decline. Part of it is technological--it's just getting harder rather than easier to do it, particularly in color. And part of it is artistic--I'm finding that photography has become so ubiquitous that one must be possessed of much greater artistic vision than mere competence, compared to when I started in photography 45 years ago. And yet mere competence is all that I can claim as a photographer--I certainly do not possess great artistic vision. Big prints are satisfying to fewer and fewer people, and the low-resolution display devices show so many photographs that only look good on low-resolution displays that it has peed in the pond from which large-format photographers must also drink.
In short, I don't think declines in participation can be laid at the feet of moderators, and I hope my sabbatical of the last many months gives me some perspective on it. Again, the moderators are just the waiters, not the chefs and certainly not the food.
Rick "who'd rather serve (and help develop) a few real devotees than the many who will dabble and move on, leaving disruption in their wake" Denney
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