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Thread: Building Peter Lindbergh's sunbounce cage...would appreciate feedback from pros!

  1. #1

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    Building Peter Lindbergh's sunbounce cage...would appreciate feedback from pros!

    Hi all - I’m a documentary photographer who’s working on a portraits series in which I would like to create portraits in look/style of Peter Lindbergh (via the ones shot in the cage), but also inspired by the work of Fazal Sheikh’s portraits in particular his work in the white tents in Africa. (Will link to a mood board at the end of post) While, I’ve watched numerous videos of Peter Lindbergh’s sun-bounce cage at work through BTS youtube videos - any feedback from regarding the set-up, metering and lighting would be great as I begin testing!

    By the way, I’ve decided to build the sun-bounce cage out of EMT Canopy materials because of the logistics of the grip (from what I can tell so far it is various single/double wind-ups, 12by frames and etc…) and also I can keep the entire cage on set.

    About my gear:

    I’m shooting on 8x10 view camera in B&W (the goal of project is to create 8x10 contact prints for each individual portrait). I’m most likely using a 360mm lens, Ilford FP4, a yellow filter for contrast if need be and have access to a pro darkroom.
    Firstly, from what I can tell, Lindbergh uses a 12x12 double net as a backdrop and shoots through at the beach/ocean. What I like about this set-up is that the double net helps create depth/separation from the subject to the background and probably prevents the white sand from completely blowing-out the background. While I understand that the DOF in particular on a 360mm 8x10 in similar lighting conditions will probably result in a DOF of mere inches, it is something I would like to test. However, my issue is that I will not be shooting at the ocean with white sand, but will be shooting on a farm surrounded by grass/trees. Furthermore, for the specific look, I would like an off-white background (aka. not Avedon’s bone white seamless..) such as this image, but also a little lighter.



    My initial solutions:

    Use a white fabric backdrop or wall and figure out the distance and size upon set-up of cage and lighting. And also make sure the backdrop is evenly illuminated and not blown out.

    I’m going to test all of this, but any advice or tips would be greatly appreciate as I am now in the process of building the cage. If there is a better/smarter solution, I would appreciate hearing that as well…

    Secondly, I have not shot in this set-up before, but is there any particular way to position the box? I see that Lindbergh places his cage in many positions even with the sun coming through the back. For me, I am looking for more of an even/directionless light (or rather open shade) much like in Fazal and Avedon’s work (In the American West) and I believe I’ll place the box either with the Sun on box/camera right and use duvetyn on the top/left/right of the cage. It’s now summer and I’ll most likely start shooting in full sun from 11 am ~ 4 pm. I can also bounce/feather the light towards the subject and of course use various silks/reflectors/flags for more contrast control. The main question is how to position the box and backdrop? I’m going to test meticulously, but would appreciate any feedback.

    Thirdly, and these are tertiary concerns:

    I will bringing with me 12by full-stop silks, China silks, 18x14 flags for contrast control. I’m thinking out loud here, but I’ll probably might switch the duvetyn for the silks depending on the exposures, lighting control and overall look I want. Any feedback for contrast control such as negative fill, diffusion and etc would be appreciated as well. As for metering, my subjects are light skinned and I’ll probably meter for a zone 6. I’ll expose twice and bracket for the tests (STD processing and N-1). I’ve also attached the following as various mood board inspirations:
    Peter Lindbergh - the technical and refinement of his work.

    http://i.imgur.com/vJ8vck8.jpg

    His set-up:

    http://i.imgur.com/T5NQWgb.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/tZD7edj.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/nURXFNG.jpg

     Fazal Sheikh - the look and feel of its documentary work is awe-inspiring for me.

    http://i.imgur.com/BYT46qI.png
    http://i.imgur.com/29HK3eV.png
    http://i.imgur.com/sQ9U1fI.png

    Avedon - mainly because of it is 8x10 work and also composition and framing.

    http://i.imgur.com/XLhrCgO.png

    I just like this shot of Avedon at the show.

    http://i.imgur.com/VFKJ7ux.png

    Irving Penn - mainly because of its composition, framing and refinement. Also, the platinum prints from Penn are break taking and among the greatest I’ve ever seen.

    http://i.imgur.com/9amoMqT.png
    http://i.imgur.com/Su94HKR.png

    August Sander - mainly because of the subject matter which is similar to mine.

    http://i.imgur.com/9KxUqm4.png

    Guys - thank you so much for reading! I understand it’s overdrawn, probably over thought out, but mainly I’m trying to see if I covered all my bases and feedback/suggestions from experience is invaluable. I haven’t shot an elaborate set-up like this and also have my hands full from producing the tests, shoots and just normal working life. Cheers!

  2. #2

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    Re: Building Peter Lindbergh's sunbounce cage...would appreciate feedback from pros!

    My first thought about all this is you should not slavishly copy what Mr. Lindbergh was doing, just use it as an inspiration and "do your own thing".

    I, too liked what Richard Avedon did out in rural America with an 8x10" camera and a white backdrop. One of the checkoff items on my bucket list is to do something similar with my 4x5" cameras. LOL, I tried it once but the wind blew down my backdrop. Lesson learned. You can see the fallen backdrop on the right side of this crappy cell phone photo of me with a Cambo and 300mm f/5.6 Rodenstock lens here:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Terry Thomas with 4x5 camera.jpg 
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Size:	100.4 KB 
ID:	151331

    (Yes, I use a Manfrotto video tripod and fluid head for my large format photography work because it is easier to make adjustments than with my Gitzo tripod.)

    Thanks for the behind the scenes photos of how Mr. Lindbergh's crew set it all up. In my case, I need to figure out how to do it all by myself. I work as a cinematographer and director of photography so own a lot of grip gear. One way I am considering is to get a 10x10' or 12x12' pop-up tent (WalMart has them) then use various black or white sides.

    http://www.walmart.com/search/?query...sort=price_low
    Last edited by AtlantaTerry; 30-May-2016 at 21:39. Reason: Cleaning up my prose.

  3. #3
    Cor's Avatar
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    Re: Building Peter Lindbergh's sunbounce cage...would appreciate feedback from pros!

    Your links do not seem to work from my computer..

    Cor

  4. #4

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    Re: Building Peter Lindbergh's sunbounce cage...would appreciate feedback from pros!

    Go to Harbor Freight, a store or on line, and get the larger portable garage, about $200. A great way to get a huge softbox, about 9x17 feet and 8-9 feet tall, with white background.

  5. #5

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    Re: Building Peter Lindbergh's sunbounce cage...would appreciate feedback from pros!

    How many people are you able to have working with you for your set up? I would guess the big limiting factors would be man power and set up time.

    I have used a Lastolite 6x4' diffuser in bright light before and found it worked well, but it's a bit flimsy in the wind. This photo was taken in bright sunshine of the beach with one

    Gisela by Toby Key, on Flickr


    If you added a black/white reflector or two and you would have a decent set up that one person could put up quickly.

  6. #6

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    Re: Building Peter Lindbergh's sunbounce cage...would appreciate feedback from pros!

    *Tobias has made some very good recommendations/suggestions for you (above).

    To begin...

    I am all for you using a large Cage 'Set-up'... For your personal Portrait Lighting -- With a few small 'Caveats' as noted below.
    In Life... Things of course are not always as simple or easy -- As they may 'initially' appear (*Ask me how I know this).

    A Large (8'x8' or more) 'Professional' Cage Set-Up (*Perhaps like the ones from California Sunbounce or MSE) -- Costs Thousands of Dollars.
    They also require more than one person to set it up properly (*Safety is a 'Given' on all Photographic Shoots).

    Photography Lighting is of course an acquired Skill/Art.
    (*Just having a Cage 'Set-up' is not a direct replacement for 'Lighting Skills' or even a quick, pancea... To achieving 'World Class' results).

    Are you perhaps willing/able to start on a bit 'smaller' scale... While still on the path to achieving your Photographic Goals?
    Have you seen the 'Dean Collins' Portrait Lighting Videos?
    --
    Do you have the 'Technical Knowledge' to make the best purchasing decisions... With respect to all of the 'various' Fabrics available?
    (I.e. Scrims/Silks/Grid Cloths/Solids/Bounces/Reflective Materials etc.)

    The list of available Fabric/Material choices of course is 'Endless'... And goes 'On and On and On'.
    It can even 'perhaps' be somewhat bewildering at times... For a Beginner (And mistakes can be costly!)

    Sometimes... 'Less can be even More'. Thus the 'Dean Collins' Video suggestions...
    However, if all of the above cited suggestions are within your 'Immediate' capabilities... Then 'Go For It!'
    --
    Unfortunately, not everybody is a Greg Gorman or Richard Avedon...
    Nor do they have the same 'Budget/Crew/Technical Resources' (*At their 'Immediate' disposal) -- For each and every one of their Shoots!
    --
    Like they say... This is just 'Food for Thought'.
    Nothing More and Nothing Less...
    --
    Enjoy the Greg Gorman/California Sunbouce Videos!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFPvHdFZ04c
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UxqPmini0U

    Thank-you, -Tim.
    Last edited by Taija71A; 31-May-2016 at 18:01.

  7. #7
    Unwitting Thread Killer Ari's Avatar
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    Re: Building Peter Lindbergh's sunbounce cage...would appreciate feedback from pros!

    I agree, start with something simple and see what it gives you.
    There's so much you can do with a 36x48 frame, and three sheets of fabric: translucent, white and black.
    It will help determine what you actually need, rather than eyeballing it with pen and paper, and you'll know if you then need to go bigger.

  8. #8
    Daniel Stone's Avatar
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    Re: Building Peter Lindbergh's sunbounce cage...would appreciate feedback from pros!

    Get a 10x10 ez-up, they come in white(translucent), and also in black(opaque).
    Higher end models have detachable "walls" that are an extra available accessory, those "walls" come in both black and white, so you can create a "softbox" effect where your walls make a big, soft sidelight source, or black(like Lindbergh's setup).
    If you need/want to photograph people standing, put the legs up on some stools, and sandbag the crap out of the whole thing. These become flying objects VERY quickly if they're not tied down. Just like with a tent, guy lines and pegs/stakes are a good, lightweight alternative to sandbags, if you're on grass or in the sand.

    Lindbergh has an army of assistants most of the time, and large budgets.
    You don't need to spend money like Lindbergh to get results that equal, or better, his.

    -Dan

  9. #9

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    Re: Building Peter Lindbergh's sunbounce cage...would appreciate feedback from pros!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ari View Post
    I agree, start with something simple and see what it gives you.
    There's so much you can do with a 36x48 frame, and three sheets of fabric: translucent, white and black.
    It will help determine what you actually need, rather than eyeballing it with pen and paper, and you'll know if you then need to go bigger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Stone View Post
    Get a 10x10 ez-up, they come in white(translucent), and also in black(opaque).
    Higher end models have detachable "walls" that are an extra available accessory, those "walls" come in both black and white, so you can create a "softbox" effect where your walls make a big, soft sidelight source, or black(like Lindbergh's setup)...
    Dan, your idea of an 'E-Z UP' Instant Shelter/Custom Pop Up Tent/Canopy is Excellent! (*Why didn't I think of that?)
    --
    Also, as per both Ari's and your suggestion...

    I too fully 'concur'... That one can do a lot with just three (3) Different Materials.
    White, Translucent White and Opaque Black... Would also be my 'First Choices'.

    *Hopefully, the OP will take your 'wise' suggestions to heart.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Stone View Post
    ... Lindbergh has an army of assistants most of the time, and large budgets... -Dan
    Dan... Please "Say It Isn't So!"

    I was always under the 'general impression' that both Ari and yourself...
    Also, have an 'army' of Photographic Assistants -- At your Beck and Call.
    (*If not a 'Large' Army... Then at the very least -- A 'Small' Army?)


  10. #10
    Daniel Stone's Avatar
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    Re: Building Peter Lindbergh's sunbounce cage...would appreciate feedback from pros!

    Tim, Not sure if "wise" would be the category my suggestions would fall into, perhaps "practical" and "multipurpose" would be more fitting
    I can easily fit an ez-up, some grip equipment, 10-15 25# sandbags, and 1-2 cases of lighting/camera gear in the back of my Prius, with the rear seats folded flat. And still have someone in the passenger seat .
    Dean Collins and his dvd's taught me a LOT, and I still re-watch those videos to refresh my brain from time to time, at least 2-3x a year. The tools/camera/materials might change/evolve, but light itself doesn't.

    -Dan

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