S&S film holders for ULF

[Oren Grad]

Sandy -

Thanks very much for the thoughtful and informative reply.

On the whole-plate holders, the light seal problems that I have are a consequence of the holders being a bit narrower than my back is designed for, so the fit isn't snug. If I'm not careful when seating the holder and removing the darkslide, which is just a bit stiff, there can be some leakage around the edge of the holder. If I'm in very bright sunlight I'll sometimes take the precaution of covering the back with my focusing hood while I'm pulling the darkslide. It's a bit fussy, but it helps. Overall, this has been just a nuisance, not a crippling problem.

I do remember that at the time you were still experimenting with the light trap and dark slide construction, and had taken a while to find a combination that would work for the smaller holders. I appreciate your offer to upgrade the light traps, but since I haven't seen any evidence with mine of a light trap problem per se, I don't see any need to impose on you for an upgrade at this point. If any suspicious problems do show up, I'll report details to you and we can figure out what, if any, specific action is warranted.

Re the T-dimension mismatch on the whole-plate holders, while I've fiddled a bit with shims, I must confess that I hadn't thought of the trick of putting a fresnel in front of the ground glass. I'm not a huge fan of fresnels, but I might try it at some point. Thanks for mentioning it.

As for the 11x14 holders, not to worry - they're not pining away in a dusty corner somewhere, they're actually enjoying a comfy life of leisure in my living room. (Don't ask... < g >) Seriously, I may yet take you up on that, depending on how my love/hate relationship with the quirky Tachihara holders pans out. Stay tuned...

[Michael Kadillak]

Asking the right questions about film holders for ULF up front is an excellent suggestion from Sandy. Saves much headache later on.

I can tell you from direct experience that Sandy is as customer service friendly as anyone can imagine. He will make it right if in fact the holders are the problem. The best combination of price and worksmanship as is available. I can honestly say that I would have given up ULF if not for a source of S&S holders. And I say that after paying Richard Ritter to get me the correct groove in a camera that was set up for other holders. Now that the work is done, ULF is a marvelous experience.

Cheers!

[CXC]

"Brubaker may charge a little more for his holders..."

Per his website, filmholders.com, an 11x14 runs $475. I just bought some 11x14 S&S holders from Quality Camera for $290. That would be 64% more, not exactly "a little more".

[CP Goerz]

I don't mind paying extra for anything if I need it, especially filmholders!! I personally like and have used Brubaker holders and know that holders are one of the most difficult things to make hence many cameramakers and few holdermakers. No-one ever complains about the cost of a camera but will complain no end about the cost of a holder.

Unless you have seen and used a Brubaker holder then its easy to complain about the price as you may not be familiar with the fit and finish. Alan also does custom wood types/inlay/darkslide grips made from exotic stuff etc etc. The holders are a work of art in themselves, this is especially true of the latest holders he makes, just incredible workmanship. If you offer such services then you are going to pay a little more.

Yes, Alan in all liklihood will be making holders for Ebony. I think that in itself speaks volumes for the caliber of workmanship he does.

To pat myself on the back at his expense a little...I was the first person to have Alan make holders and with my prodding he got in the business of making them full time. It may at present take some time to get a holder but this will very soon be a thing of the past. Alan USED to make two 20x24s when the order came in then 4 7x17s etc and never stockpile any holders. Each holder truly was made one at a time, he now makes batches and can ship them a lot faster than in the past.

As for hicups(and I don't want to speak for Alan here but...) regarding holders a lot of the time its the buyer who gives him the specs and asks him to make the holders to that size. When the holders are shipped the buyer then finds out they are the wrong size due to the buyers bad measurements so its not just a case of Alan screwing up entirely.

Alans prices are as follows...

4x10-----------$220

* 8x10-----------$300

* 7x17-----------$450-------------------S&S 349

* 10x12--------$425---------------------S&S 329



* 8x20-----------$475-------------------S&S 379

* 11x14---------$475---------------------S&S 295

* 12x20---------$500--------------------S&S 395

* 14x17---------$525---------------------S&S 395

* 16x20---------$575

* 20x24---------$800



The price chosen as a comparison is not exactly an 'across the board' difference as you can see from the prices taken from Alans website and Quality Cameras site. Perhaps S&S make the larger sized holders on a custom basis but they weren't offered at Quality. A more accurate difference in price is aroud 25% possibly less, as with all his work Alan stands behind it and will make sure the holders work as they are supposed to. Alan does correct the T distance for each format and I've never had to change the position of my groundglass on any of my cameras be they Korona or Wisner(in the 8x20 size). Maybe I'm lucky I guess.

CP Goerz.

[Mark Sampson]

Wow. I'm sure both brands of ULF holders are excellent quality and value... but at those prices my tiny little 4x5, and its two dozen holders, seems like a good deal. I guess I'm just not ready for the really big time....

[sanking]

" Perhaps S&S make the larger sized holders on a custom basis but they weren't offered at Quality."

S&S does indeed make larger size holders, for example 16X16", 20X20" and 20X24" are among the large custom sizes we have made during the last year or so. We have also made holders in a variety of other custom sizes, including 10X10", 7X11", 5X12" and 9.5X20". In most cases people who are interested in custom sizes buy the holders and then make a back for their camera to match the holder. Many of the orders for custom size holders come through the dealers I mentioned earlier, but as often as not we deal directly with the customer. This obviously has some advantages because any source of misunderstanding is limited to the two of us.

I would also add that we don't list prices for custom jobs because this can vary a lot depending on the number of holders wanted, current cost of materials, and how much it is worth for us to interrupt production of the heart of our business, which is 7X17, 11X14, 8X20 and 12X20.

Hope I have not said anything that might be seen as commercial advertisement. Am just trying to give some information to questions that were raised by others.

[CXC]

Dang, it would be great to have a 10"x10" camera...

[John Z.]

I have both the S&S and the AWB holders in 11x14 format, and can vouch that they are both of good quality and work well. The AWB holders are of more exotic and richer woods, but the S&S are sure tempting at the price under 300 dollars, and are still very good quality. If you need a number of holders, the savings sure can add up! I can use a few more, and cannot decide which to buy next!

[Oren Grad]

CXC: I don't know about 10x10, but Butch Welch built an interesting multi-format camera a few years back, with 7x11, 8x10 and 9x9 backs. I believe S&S made the holders. There was an article about Butch's cameras and Pt prints, written by Kerry Thalmann, in the Jul/Aug 2003 issue of View Camera. There used to be lovely pictures of Butch's cameras on his website, but they were taken down shortly after he sold the cameras later in 2003.

(BTW, in that same issue there's a nice feature on Chris Jordan, too.)

[Oren Grad]

Quality Camera contacted me in response to this thread. In the resulting exchange of correspondence, they reaffirmed their commitment to customer satisfaction and stated their willingness to accept return of my 11x14 S&S holders for a refund.