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Thread: Q: Fiber Paper / Glass Sheets for Drying

  1. #1

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    Q: Fiber Paper / Glass Sheets for Drying



    Hi,



    I enlarge 4x5 B&W negatives to 8x10 and 11x14 on RC paper. I'm planning to try Fiber paper for the first time; am planning to buy a 25-sheet pack of Bergger VC-NB Glossy and also Oriental Seagull VC Glossy in 11x14. I'm also planning to use the Ilford Archival Wash approach (5 min wash, 10 min wash aid, 5 min wash) to save water.



    I've browsed this forum and have found that several people dry their Fiber prints by attaching the wet (squeegeed) print to a sheet of glass using tape such as 3M Artist Tape for Watercolor Paper. I understand this aids in helping the paper dry flat, and also eliminates the dry-down effect experienced with fiber paper.



    In my search, I didn't come across any answers to some of the following questions. So a few questions to those who use this approach:
    <ul>
    <li>Can you briefly summarize the approach you use? I've read some people let the print lay on a fiberglass screen for ~30 minutes to let it dry a little, and then tape it to the sheet of glass.
    <li>Do you (or is it okay) to use both sides of the glass? I don't make more than 6 prints in a session, so is it best to get 3 or 6 sheets of glass?
    <li>If I use both sides of the glass, then I'll have to stand the glass up instead of letting it lay flat - will this create a problem with drying flat?
    <li>Since 11x14 is the largest print I make, I suppose a sheet of glass that is 13x16 would be large enough. But how thick does it need to be? Is 1/8" thick enough? Tempered glass is probably the safest way to go, but is more than double in price; so I'll probably use untempered and be careful.
    <li>Since the dry-down effect is supposed to be eliminated, then I suppose that I need to make the print with the detail I want in the highlights -- so there is no need to test for dry-down effect?
    <li>Any other tips or advice?
    </ul>



    I'll probably mount the prints using photo corners, although in the past I've used the 3M adhesive (not spray) with RC prints and have had success, but I don't know that the 3M product is archival.



    I'm hoping the approach above works as I don't want to spend $$$ on a dry-mount press.



    Thanks in advance for any help or advice,



    Justin

  2. #2
    Louie Powell's Avatar
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    Q: Fiber Paper / Glass Sheets for Drying

    I dry my FB prints on fiberglass screens. They are reasonably flat, but certainly not perfect. It is relativly simple to flatten them in a heat press, and I choose to present my finished work in dry-mounted form. I used to use the 3M spray, but gave up when I recognized that the tendency for the edges of double-weight FB prints to curl will almost certainly the edges of larger prints to eventually lift away from their mounts.

    There is no method of drying that will produce permanently flat prints. They may be flat initially, but that will change with changes in atmospheric humidity.

    I am familiary with the process of drying on glass plates although I don't use that process. Prints dried in this fashion are flat initially, but will eventually acquire a curl unless they are mounted in a way that inhibits curling. A prractical limitation for me is the logistics of purchasing and storing a quantiy of glass plates.

    One critical point - I don't believe that drying on glass plates has any affect on the drydown effect. That's a characteristic of the paper that you are going to have to understand and compensate for regardless of your choice of drying methoc.

  3. #3
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    Q: Fiber Paper / Glass Sheets for Drying

    The idea is to dry fiber based paper slowly, allowing air to circulate on both sides of the paper. Squegee the excess moisture off of both sides. Lay the print face up on a porous surface that will allow the air to circulate to both sides (like fiber glass window screening). DO NOT force the drying process by using warm air. The prints will curl excessively. The emulsion side will dry faster than the base side. The prints will curl slightly. When the prints have air dried (usually over night), stack them emulsion-to- base, and press them under a heavy weight for several hours. I use an unopened package of 16X20 mounting boards. It makes an excellent press. For perfect flatness, FB prints need to be dry mounted or held flat by matting and framing.

    As far as eliminating the dry-down effect, the method used to dry the prints has no bearing on that effect. Compensation for the for dry-down effect needs to be done as part of the final exposure under the enlarger.

  4. #4
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Q: Fiber Paper / Glass Sheets for Drying

    I agree with Eugene and Louie, dry down will be the same whether you use glass or screens. Any local framer should have a hot press who would let you have time on it to flatten prints. Humidity or better yet lack of is a constant problem when drying prints here in toronto. I always hot press between two sheets of archival board. ( I do not have any problem with the way you are planning to dry with glass.

  5. #5

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    Q: Fiber Paper / Glass Sheets for Drying

    Drying on glass seems like an excessive waste of money spent on glass that could break the first time you use them. My recommendation is the same as Eugene's. Go with the fiberglass screening material and wash them now and then. They dont break like glass. I have been using my screens for over 10 years now and plan on using them for a long time to come. I routinely make 16x20's and they are flat enough but I run them thru a dry mount press to assure better flatness. Pressing in a dry mount press is the only way I know to make fiber prints flat.

    leec

  6. #6

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    Q: Fiber Paper / Glass Sheets for Drying

    Eugene,

    You dry emulsion up? I've always done fibre emulsion down on the screen. When I was using a communal darkroom, I would wash, squeegee, and then put my prints into a drying book to take home. Once home, I used clean fiberglass screens and dried emulsion down (to hopefully keep dust off the emulsion side.

  7. #7
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    Q: Fiber Paper / Glass Sheets for Drying

    Mike,

    Yes, I now begin the drying process with the squeeged prints face up on the screens. When the emulsion feels dry (it dries before the back of the print), I turn the prints face down to finish the drying process. That's a trick that Fred Picker taught me many years ago. There is no hardener in my print fixer. Sometimes, I would find marks on the emulsion side of my prints- an imprint of the fiberglass screen in the soft surface of the emulsion. Those marks were impossible to remove. No more problems with surface marks since I began following Fred's advice. Of course, my drying screens are located in a dust-free area.

  8. #8

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    Q: Fiber Paper / Glass Sheets for Drying

    Are you sure this taping method isn't something you read about that's used by alternative process folks rather than people printing on fiber base paper in a "normal" darkroom? Some alternative processes such as gum require processing in multiple steps and taping the paper to dry in between steps is one way of trying to keep it from shrinking. But it's one thing to use that method for alt processes, where you're usually working only on a print at a time. It's another to have enough glass on hand to use it with the ten, fifteen or twenty prints that may come out of a day or night in the darkroom when you're using silver paper.

    FWIW, I've tried the blotters, I've tried the newspaper, I've tried the heavy books, I think I've tried all of the usual methods of drying prints on FB paper.. Several ways can be used to dry fiber base prints satisfactorily but with all of them the paper ends up with wavy edges and so doesn't really look "flat.".The only method I've found that will eliminate the wavy edges is to put the prints in a dry mount press for a few seconds after they have been dried in whatever way you choose (screens being the method I used). And another FWIW - I dried them face up too, for the same reason as Eugene mentioned.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  9. #9

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    Q: Fiber Paper / Glass Sheets for Drying



    I appreciate all of the responses - they are very helpful.



    I hope someone who uses this method regularly will reply; it seems that the
    majority of responders above don't use this method, which is interesting in
    itself. In any case, I think I'll try it out and use it as a learning
    experience.



    Regarding the question if this applies to a "normal" darkroom (and not
    alternative processes/etc):&nbsp; the answer is yes from what I can tell. There
    are several postings on this forum which reference this approach for a "normal"
    darkroom.&nbsp; And yesterday I did a search on APUG and this is the most
    comprehensive information I've found so far:


    Its definately not for someone who needs to crank out
    prints, it does work very well, apart from the change of paper surface with
    glossy papers...I dont like high gloss anyway so its perfect for me

  10. #10

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    Q: Fiber Paper / Glass Sheets for Drying

    By all means try it on glass for the learning experience, but also try the screens followed by pressure when dry too. Watch out for pressing Ilford MG Warmtone while it's still wet - the emulsion tends to stick! (been there; done that; wasted 2 prints and half a sheet of mountboard; then decided to read the Ilford documentation which clearly says not to do that...).

    Also try hanging them, two prints back-to-back with 4 to 8 wooden clothes pegs along the sides to keep them together (not had much luck with this myself but some like it).

    If you are mounting your prints without a dry mount press, use corner mounts and an overmat and the print should stay reasonably flat in the frame once pressed as flat as possible. As you will see, the curl tends to be at the edges after flattening, with the centre fairly flat, so a wide border on the print helps too; you can always trim a bit off if you like.

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