The Future of Cone/MIS B&W Inksets?

[Peter York]

So, where is the new hope after the empire has struck back? I have been researching 24" printers with the aim of top notch B&W printing via an all grey inkset and the future looks grim. Epson has apparently shut this route down by screwing QTR and cone/mis inks with their newer printer models. I was all set to buy an Epson and now I will not buy another Epson product until these practices end. Heck, they should have just bought out cone's business and produced the inksets in house.

AFAIK neither Canon nor HP support third-party B&W inksets. So I ask: Is their a future for high-end B&W digital printing? Do you foresee Canon or HP collaborating with cone/mis in the near future? If not, what is the alternative? Caring for a legacy Epson as long as possible? Switching to Canon and using Bowhaus True Black and White while hoping for greater collaboration regarding b&w inksets? Reverting to the darkroom?

[Ken Lee]

Could you please elaborate ? What have the manufacturers have done to thoroughly prevent the use of non-OEM inks with their printers ?

This is the first I've heard of it. I see no mention of this on the Quadtone RIP forum either.

[Kirk Gittings]

Some of the best B&W digital printers I know don't use Cone inks.

[datro]

Some of the best B&W digital printers I know don't use Cone inks.

Aside from the question of which inks are being used by these "best B&W digital printers", I also wonder if they are even using Epson printers, and if so, are they doing their work with ABW or with QTR? And if not using Epson, then does Canon or HP standout?

Like the OP I am also wondering about the future of B&W digital printing, especially with Epson printers since that is what I use now (with ABW). Epson has made design changes in their latest printers to pretty much eliminate any possibility of using third-party cartridges/ink (starting with the P800 and up). But it is less clear to me if QTR will be able to support the newer Epsons which would still allow doing high quality B&W using the OEM inks. Most interesting is that Epson is offering 4 black shades on their new P20000 and P10000 printers (Black + three greys) which could make ABW even better, but it remains to be seen if they will do the necessary changes to ABW to take advantage of it. On the down side, these new printers seem to be aimed at high volume printing (e.g. lower resolution, 700ml carts only) and will probably not be ideal for the smaller fine art shops or individual printers. And we don't know yet if QTR would be an option with these printers.

It will be interesting to see where things go in the coming months regarding high-end B&W digital printing.

Dave

[Kirk Gittings]

So Santa Fe and ABQ are the homes of many first rate digital b&w printers, just like for silver and platinum etc. Some of these are purely commercial, some are in-house for the artist and some both. Many switched to Canon a few years back for reasons commonly known and are now rethinking Epson. The new Epson's (I don't own one but use one-printed a recent show on one) can do amazing b&w, amongst other things they have a superior d-max and a tweaked ABW. It can do everything I need. I did Cone inks for awhile but was disappointed when the Ardenberg tests came out showing they were less archival than Epson or Canon. For larger prints I can't do in-house I have been working with a shop with Canons (they also have large Epson's, some with Cone inks). The archival issue gradually soured me on Cone as I try to work with the most archival materials available.

[Drew Wiley]

What about consistency of sheen between the various shades of gray/black? That's the most common complaint I hear from friends using Epson.

[Alan9940]

I used Cone inks many, many years ago in my Epson 2200 and had a LOT of problems with them; I'm sure they've improved over the years. The folks over at BowHaus that created True Black and White software for Canon printers I believe use the OEM inkset. Haven't used this software...I don't own Canon printers...but I did use their IJC/OPM software years ago with Epson printers and Epson inks, and it was great! Over the years, I have formulated my own inksets using mostly MIS inks as the base, but I wouldn't go as far to say that any of these products or custom formulations are any better than Epson's ABW or, for that matter, printing B&W as color using a good color profile. I know a couple of B&W printers that use Colorbyte's ImagePrint RIP to print all their B&W (and color) images and they're superb!

Bottom line, I'm glad we all have options such as third-party inks and software for printing, but I remain unconvinced that these products are the only way to go for top-notch B&W output. That opinion and a few bucks at Starbucks will get ya a latte...

[Peter De Smidt]

The most light fast inks I know of are those made with pure carbon pigments, such as Cone's Sepia inkset and MIS's Eboni. They're on the warm side of neutral, but Eboni is less so, especially on papers like Epson's Hot Press Natural and Arches Hot Press. Those cotton papers have no optical brighteners, and they should last a very long time. Paul Roark who works with Eboni comes up with ink sets that work with QTR, but he also tries to have them work with Epson's print driver.

[Peter York]

Ken, I think the p600 and p800 printers are now driveable with QTR, but my Epson 3880 leaves pizza wheel marks and I need a printer with a vaccum back. No new 24" or 48" model is supported. And Epson has tried to shut out 3rd party inks with new chips and maybe more. This is nothing new as one only has to look at how Epson dealt with Roland. So, you are left with a very expensive RIP (ImagePrint) and 3 greys. For this type of setup, I will probably go with Canon.

Admittedly I should ratchet back the "top-notch" a bit. My current workflow is with ABW on matte papers and I am quite happy. However I want that extra 5%, especially in the highlights because I am more of a midtone photographer than a stark b&w one. I think the stark look is easier to achieve on the 3-4 grey sets with bartya papers, akin to a silver gelatin print. However I premain unconvinced that a 3-4 grey inkset is equal to an all-grey inkset, primarily due to the advanced dithering that can be applied.

It has been a couple years since I looked at longevity data Kirk, so I will have to again. At that point the Vivera inksets were clearly superior to Epson but I have not yet looked at Canon ink. The cone carbon set appears to be quite promising, though I am willing to sacrifice some longevity for print quality. I tend to think that there is a top tier w.r.t. archival characteristics, and all 3 printer brands can get you there, though Epson inks seem to be somewhat at a disadvantage.

[Peter York]

Bottom line, I'm glad we all have options such as third-party inks and software for printing, but I remain unconvinced that these products are the only way to go for top-notch B&W output.

Will we? The printer manufacturers have to be open to an inexpensive 3rd party RIP as well as 3rd party inks. The first is easier for the companies to concede since that does not impact the ink racket. Admittedly a rip alone will get you far as you can linearize the printer and set ink limits. The 3rd party inks appear to be the most endangered.