Shipping film to Europe and dealing with VAT

[ryanmills]

I'm American but I shoot in Europe in the summer. In the past I have shot 4x5 so traveling even with 10 boxes was fine, customs never cares even when I ship it back. However this year im shooting 8x10 and I don't see how im getting 20 boxes in my carry on. Buying film in europe is almost double the cost and finding that much 8x10 does not seem likely. B&H will ship film to me in europe and they give the option of paying duties and VAT when i buy it or dealting with them when I pick it up. However i dont think I should be paying VAT since it was bought in america, by an american and while I will use it in europe im bring it back with me not selling it. So is it as simple as bringing my passport when I pick it up to avoid VAT? Anyone have any experince with this? The county I will be picking it up in is Belgium.

[Bob Salomon]

If you are importing into a country with VAT then that country will collect VAT upon entry into the country. If you can prove to them that you are taking the imported items out of the country, at the end of your visit, then you may be eligible to get a refund of the VAT. This is not the place to get an answer. Check with the Embassy of the country that you will send the film to and ask them. You may need to fill out special forms before you ship to get the money back.

[ryanmills]

If you are importing into a country with VAT then that country will collect VAT upon entry into the country. If you can prove to them that you are taking the imported items out of the country, at the end of your visit, then you may be eligible to get a refund of the VAT. This is not the place to get an answer. Check with the Embassy of the country that you will send the film to and ask them. You may need to fill out special forms before you ship to get the money back.

"This is not the place to get an answer."

Sure seems like it would be given this is a Q&A forum, specifically "how to travel with equipment". I dont expect im the first to ship film to my destination. So no disrespect but im looking for input from a photographer who has done this before. Dealing with embassy's dont work the way you might hope. I hoping to hear someones real experince with this.

[Martin Aislabie]

Shipping stuff - what ever it is - in to the EU or USA will expose you to both VAT and an import duty.

If you hand carry it - then its OK and you will get away without paying the VAT.

If you ship/fly the film out from and then back to the USA, with the right paperwork you will be able to claim the VAT back from Europe

It will simplify the paperwork trail if you import and export the film through the same countries.

However, shipping the film back to the USA may also incur import duties from the US Customs group - and you will then need a clear paperwork export/import trail to get that tax back.

The cheapest way of doing all of this is to hand carry the film - but don't put it in your luggage as the X-Ray scanners will fry it.

The alternative way is to buy the film at B&H, pay the tax up front and have them ship it to a convenient location in Europe with the paperwork already sorted - its much easier than trying to deals with customs in a foreign country when you land and are dealing with a foreign language.

The third way is to buy the film in Europe on the internet and have them ship it to a convenient location in Europe - somewhere like Silverprint (http://www.silverprint.co.uk/) in London should be able to do this for you.

Good luck

Martin

[ryanmills]

Shipping stuff - what ever it is - in to the EU or USA will expose you to both VAT and an import duty.

If you hand carry it - then its OK and you will get away without paying the VAT.

If you ship/fly the film out from and then back to the USA, with the right paperwork you will be able to claim the VAT back from Europe

It will simplify the paperwork trail if you import and export the film through the same countries.

However, shipping the film back to the USA may also incur import duties from the US Customs group - and you will then need a clear paperwork export/import trail to get that tax back.

The cheapest way of doing all of this is to hand carry the film - but don't put it in your luggage as the X-Ray scanners will fry it.

The alternative way is to buy the film at B&H, pay the tax up front and have them ship it to a convenient location in Europe with the paperwork already sorted - its much easier than trying to deals with customs in a foreign country when you land and are dealing with a foreign language.

The third way is to buy the film in Europe on the internet and have them ship it to a convenient location in Europe - somewhere like Silverprint (http://www.silverprint.co.uk/) in London should be able to do this for you.

Good luck

Martin

Well that were it gets hard and why im hoping someone here has done it before. Yes, you can get VAT refunds and I have done that but you have to get paperwork when you buy it and the store and do it as you leave Belgium. However in this case its not an EU store and there is no paperwork. Buying the film in the EU is not an option, i need too much and so far no one I have checked with has it. Silver print does not even seem carry 8x10 film and even then the film costs would be higher than shipping from B&H and eating the VAT. As far as calling the Embassy, I have delt with the belgian embassy a few times. Asking a complex question to someone who does not care will get the simple answers, regardless of if its true.

[Bob Salomon]

"This is not the place to get an answer."

Sure seems like it would be given this is a Q&A forum, specifically "how to travel with equipment". I dont expect im the first to ship film to my destination. So no disrespect but im looking for input from a photographer who has done this before. Dealing with embassy's dont work the way you might hope. I hoping to hear someones real experince with this.

I do have experience with this. But the latest issue we had was with the owner of a non warranted Rodenstock lens that had an issue with it and he shipped it to the factory in Germany for service, without the proper forms. German Customs charged him over $900.00 in VAT and duties that he was never able to get back. Check with the Consulate or Emassy and insist that you speak to someone who does know. You are not asking a strange question. They get lots of questions regarding this type if situation.

BTW, that lens that he returned to Germany was plainly marked Made in Germany on the box and on the lens. The way they think there is to assume that if you are bringing it into the country it will probably stay in the country or, at least, in the EU. So it is incumbent upon you to present the proper paperwork so you will not be charged or, if you are, that you can receive a refund if your fees.

[Grumium]

As others have stated, I'd also bring the film with me (carry-on) or buy it locally, e.g. purchase it at a European dealer and have it shipped to a place of yours (e.g. hotel).

Buying film in europe is almost double the cost and finding that much 8x10 does not seem likely.

Price highly depends on the film you're looking for. Ilford is reasonably priced. I can recommend:
Fotoimpex (Germany; they also have a store in Berlin)
Digit Foto (Germany)
Nodfoto (Germany)

They should all be able to ship to Belgium, they accept credit cards, they will most likely understand English and be as helpful as possible. They will also be able to supply a lifetimes quantity of film, if required ;-)

[Tobias Key]

I concur that 8x10 is not as common in Europe as in the US. I have done some research in the past and came to the conclusion that you have to order a lot of film from the US to make it worthwhile, and VAT and import duty are not consistently applied, so one package might slip through without you having to pay any duty and the next you get hammered. This is the UK link for goods sent from abroad, not the same as Belgium but most of these are harmonised within the EU now so the rules won't be radically different. Note you will most likely have to pay VAT and import duty

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

Calumet is still going strong in Europe and there is a Belgium branch. They have some Ilford stuff in 8x10 and might be able to get other things on order. Probably more expensive than a US import but one thing I have no clue about is whether they X ray parcels when they are posted internationally, would you still have the risk of the film being fogged?

[ryanmills]

Issue one, I don't even know how I would carry on 20 boxes of 8x10 tri-x. Weight alone would be unpleasant. Shipping it is the only option. Issue two, buying it in Europe in no way would be cheaper, the prices are nearly double. And to find someone with that much on hand is hard. Even in the US i only know of two places that normally have that much 8x10 in stock. Sidenote: I dont know why people in europe even buy film from these places. The fact thats its cheaper to buy it from a US store, pay vat and ship it acorss an ocean and have it still be 1/4 to 1/2 the cost or more given the euro vs dollar exchange rate is beyond me. Bottom line getting the film there is not the issue, just dealing with VAT, VAT refunds and customs is.

The consistency of customs is the reason I'm not relying on an Embassy, I have traveled enough to know just because some low-level government employee in one place says something, it does not mean that's how it really works. I'm hoping there is someone here has had to deal with this at least once or a few times and has some thoughts on whats worth doing.

[Grumium]

Ryan, sourcing from the US might not be as attractive as you think (75-50% cheaper). Please find an example below:

Kodak TMY 8x10 box of 10 sheet

B&H

USD 105
= 93 EUR
+ VAT (+19% Germany*) =
= 110 EUR
+ Shipping (USD 40 = 35 EUR)
+ VAT on Shipping (= 42 EUR)
= 152 EUR for one box
= 1142 EUR for 10 boxes

CALUMET Germany (Link)

No stock. Delivery time: 5-7 working days. As I said, quantity shouldn't be a problem.
135 EUR
= including tax
= including shipment
= 135 EUR for one box (11% cheaper)
= 1350 EUR for 10 boxes (15% more expensive)

* VAT in Belgium is 21%

If you go for Ilford films you would save roughly 50% over Kodak.

I do not know how things changed in terms of security checks/scans for shipped goods after the terrorist attacks. I would be very careful, in particular regarding Belgium. Saving a few bucks might not pay out in the long run (risk of fogged negatives).

If you want to source your film in the US, ship it to EU and get European VAT refunded after return, IMO you need to do it on your own. You do not need the embassy or other others - google for ATA Carnet, etc. This might help: http://www.atacarnet.com/what-carnet