Tube or Tray Development of 7x17 film?

[robert_4927]

alan brubaker will make custom trays for tray development. He is currently making me 11x 22 trays for 8x 20 film. I figure the savings in developer over the course of a few years will pay for themselves...www.filmholders .com.....this along with the fact I can get 5 of the custom trays in my small sink as opposed to only 3 16x20 makes it rather nice

[sanking]

I don't want to be misunderstood on this so let me state at the outset that some of my best friends develop large sheet film in trays!

And I don't recommend using drums, tubes and Jobo for developing ULF sheet film because these methods takes up less space. I recommend them because rotary development in tubes and drums simply can not be beat for evenness of development. Using good technique with tray development can give even development close to what you can get with rotary development, but it can not beat it.

Many years ago when Phil Davis developed the BTZS system he found that tray development, regardless of technique, did not provide sufficient evenness of illumination to match the precision of his system. That is why he developed and promoted the concept of rotary development in tubes.

There are other more mundane considerations that lead me to prefer rotary development (I hate standing there in the dark shuffling film,) but the main reason is that I am convinced that it gives better results in terms of even development.

[robert_4927]

I can not comment on rotary development for the simple fact I've never tried it. I was mostly shooting tmax 400 in 8x10.. when I moved up to ULF it required me to find another film. Up until this point I was shuffling negs and was quite confident in not scratching the neg. Then I grabbed some efke pl 100 and the first time i shuffled I no longer could brag about not scratching a neg as this softer emulsion film humbled me as far as my shuffling abilities. ( scratches everywhere) The quickest fix was to just grab a brush and give it a try since the trays were right in front of me. Now I was little leary about dragging a brush across the emulsion side of a neg but from the very first neg there was not a single scratch and these negs are some of the most evenly developed negs I've produced. I'm sure Sandy is right about the quality you get in rotary development, he has run enough tests to know what works well and what don't. My intro to brush development came out of seeking a fix right at that moment and it has worked so well I do all my 8x20 film with it.

[Robert McClure]

Thanks to all! I sincerely appreciate each and every response!

Sandy: I have a few questions.

1. When using a drum like what you mention above, can I get away easily without temp control if I keep my temps within a decent window?

2. Which pyro lends itself to drum development?

3. Any problem doing film and paper in the same drum?

4. What about this? The Jobo tech guy recently told me how the bigger Jobo paper tubes (2850, for example) weren't really designed for film unless I wasn't "too picky." He said that even the "3000 Series" with the "custom membrane," etc. did not overcome remaining/inherent evenness problems for film. What is it about your Unicolor and Bessler drums (in conj. with motor base) that overcomes problems Jobo does not resolve?

5. What do you personally use for developing 717/820?

I don't mean to ask so many questions. I'm just trying to find out what the hell might work best for me. I hate (HATE) standing in the dark rocking trays. Plus, my space is rather tight. Many thanks in advance!!!

[Robert McClure]

BTW, Sandy - my wife just now happened to bring me my March/April View Cam Mag. I will read the article you mention. Looks interesting and helpful. Thanks!

[sanking]

Robert,

In answer to your questions.

"1. When using a drum like what you mention above, can I get away easily without temp control if I keep my temps within a decent window? "

IMO a temperature variation of up to about 2-5 degrees in ambient temperature will not make much difference in results as the drum will tend to retain the beginning temperature.

2. Which pyro lends itself to drum development?

I would recommend either Pyrocat-HD or Rollo Pyro for drum processing.

3. Any problem doing film and paper in the same drum?

Not sure. I reserve my drums for film processing.

4. What about this? The Jobo tech guy recently told me how the bigger Jobo paper tubes (2850, for example) weren't really designed for film unless I wasn't "too picky." He said that even the "3000 Series" with the "custom membrane," etc. did not overcome remaining/inherent evenness problems for film. What is it about your Unicolor and Beseler drums (in conj. with motor base) that overcomes problems Jobo does not resolve?

I don't understand what he is talking about so can not comment. But I know that many, many people are using drums like the Beseler and Unicolor for developing sheet film with good success.

5. What do you personally use for developing 717/820?

I use Pyrocat-HD almost exclusively for tube and drum processing of sheet film. In fact, I developed Pyrocat-HD for rotary processing after experiencing a number of problems with another staining developer with this type of development

[Michael Kadillak]

I have used the polycarbonate inserts that I got from JOBO for developing ULF sheet films in the JOBO prints drums and they do in fact work great. You just roll them up with the film inside the plastic buttons and insert it in the drum and put on the lid. The only downside that I find with drums is that it is single sheet processing just takes a lot of time. If you have plenty of time, you are better than me.

With some practice, I have been able to easily manage six ULF sheets of film without a hitch. From a time management standpoint, it is very effective and while I recognize that some "evenness" might be sacrificed over drum processing, I can pull sheets along the journey at various development times from the trays and it accomplishes my objective.

However saying that, I find that each development technique (trays, drums, JOBO, brush and stand development) is but another tool in the tool box and there are times and specific instances where I would want to use any at my descretion. Depends upon what you want to accomplish in the final result.

Over time I will probably migrate to a particular developing style, but for right now I am learning and growing and enjoying the journey.

Cheers!

[Robert McClure]

Thanks, guys. This gives me a good sense of direction to go in. Thanks!

[Oren Grad]

Robert -

Good luck! Can you report back on what you end up doing and your results, once you get to that point?

Thanks...

[Robert McClure]

Oren,

Yes, I will let you know how I do with this. And I really do value the help and support. Thanks again and you'll hear back from me.