Help me choose an Ebony

[Todd Schoenbaum]

I have been lurking here for a while and have learned a lot. I have been shooting with a Mamiya RB for about 5 years, but I am a little frustrated with not having movements and a larger neg would be nice as well. I print and develop all my own work. The lenses I currently use are 50mm, 90mm, and 180mm (4x5 equivalents? = 90mm, 150mm, and 300mm ). So onto my question...

I have been researching several 4x5 models and I think that an Ebony is what I am looking for. The Canham DLC seemed too flimsy to me and I dont like having one knob for rise and tilt. The TK45 seems quite nice, but no asymetrical movements, no base tilts, and some concerns about the folding. I dont really like the back movements on the MT's.

What I am looking for in a camera:
1. large range of movements, especially bellows draw
2. quality construction
3. portablility, it needs to fit in a backpack (currently I use a Photo Trekker AW)
4. ease of use

The models I am considering are:
SV45TE: least expensive of the 3 SV's (except the Ti), good bellows draw; no universal bellows, no Asymetrical movements, maybe too many knobs
SV45U: same as above but asymetrical movements and with fewer knobs; is this worth $600
SV45U2: same as above with 65mm more draw, rear shift, and universal bellows; $1100 more than the TE, $500 more than the U.



So, what I am wondering most is whether or not anyone with the TE (or Ti) wishes they had instead gotten a one of the models with the asymetrical movements, the universal bellows, and/or the longer bellows draw? And to those of you with the U2, do you find that the asymetrical movements, and longer universal bellows are worth the money?



I plan on only having one 4x5 camera for quite a while, so I want the find the best camera for my type of shooting (this can be seen on my website: Celluloid and Silver ). I live in Los Angeles and I have only been able to handle one Ebony, I think it was the 45S.

Thank you for any help and advice.

[Steve Hamley]

Todd,

I have the SV45U (and a SV810) and enjoy the asymmetric rear movements immensely. They are worth it to me although others are undoubtedly equally confortable with symmetric movements.

Steve

[Danny Burk]

Todd,

Any of the three Ebony models that you list will fit your four listed criteria, as you know.

I have an SV45U2 and have handled an SV45U. The longer draw of the "U2" is important to me since I'm a long lens fanatic and need it to handle a Nikkor 720mm tele. Rear shift is convenient and I use it occasionally to tweak composition after everything is set up, but if it were lacking, I'd get along fine with front shift only. The Universal bellows is great, and can be substituted for the non-Universal bellows when you order the camera (true at Badger Graphic, anyway; I assume this would be the case at other dealers too). It really does handle everything with one bellows: I have lenses from 47XL (on 10mm recessed board) up to 720 tele, and it accepts them all.

Personally, I love asymmetric tilt and use it frequently. However, an Ebony's asym tilt applies only to the rear standard, meaning that you'll still have to use non-asym front tilt for those times that verticals have to be kept distortion-free. For the type of work that I do, I probably use rear tilt about 2/3 of the time. It's one of those things where once you've had it, you'll be spoiled and can't imagine having done without it. If you've never had it...well, you don't know what you're missing till you try it

For *me*, the SV45U2 is the perfect choice. Others' needs will differ. If you don't expect to use lenses longer than a 500mm tele at some point, and don't need a lot of extension for close work, you may not need the longer bellows. If you have questions, feel free to contact me.

Regards,
Danny www.dannyburk.com

[Gem Singer]

Hi Todd,

I had a SV45TE, with the standard, as well as the wide angle bellows. My lenses ranged from 65--450, and the camera handled all of them beautifully. It had more movement capability than I could possibly use. I often referred to it as the "Lexus" of 4X5 cameras.

However, if I were to purchase another Ebony, I would choose the SV45TI for it's lighter weight, and I would equip it with the universal bellows for the convenience of not needing to change bellows. A different model Ebony, with asymetrical movements on the rear standard, would have cost (approx.) $1000 more. I didn't think that the extra expenditure was necessary at the time, and I still feel the same way about it now.

Also, if I were to purchase another Ebony, I would certainly get it from Jim, at Midwest Photo Exchange, again.

[Ben Hopson]

Tod, I have the SV45U2 and though it was tough parting with the $'s when I bought it, I have no regrets. My lenses at present range from 90mm - 450mm with plenty of movements. I don't have one, but I understand the U2 will handle the 720mm tele quite well.

I can only speak of the quality of my camera and it is solid, very stable when locked down and is a beautiful example of precision workmanship.

As for the asymetrical movements, although I don't use them all the time, they are very nice when I do. For me it was worth the additional cost, but not a feature that is absolutly necessary.

The camera is quite easy to set up and use. Like any LF camera after going through the process a few times it becomes second nature.

I use a Tenba PBL backpack to cary the camera, four lenses on boards, meter, loupe, Quickload holder, box of Quickload film, dark cloth, filters, cable releases and various other accessories with plenty of room. I can also carry it on and store overhead when traveling by air.

There are many good cameras to choose from, but if indeed an Ebony is what you are looking for, I don't think you will be dissapointed with the quality.

Good luck with your decision. Nice images on your site BTW.

[Donald Hutton]

Todd

I have owned and used a couple of Ebony 4X5 cameras. The best choice for you will ultimately depend upon what your subject matter, lenses and style. I currently have an SV45U. When I bought it, I hoped that it would be the ultimate "one camera" solution for me. It pretty much was for a while and then I started shooting more city architecture. Then some of the cameras compromises became obvious and I bought an SW45 as well to use when the SV45U was not the most appropriate tool.

The SV45U is an outstanding design. If I shot mostly landscape and architecture on the odd occassion, it would definitely be the only camera I would own. The assymetric movements are extremely useful - they definitely speed up the focussing process and if that helps you get a shot before the light changes, only you will know if it is worth the extra $$$. If you didn't have them, you'd never know. If you had used them for a while, I'm sure you'd always want them... I personally don't miss the extra bellows extension of the U2 nor the rear shift. In fact, I have never felt restricted with the camera due to a lack of rear shift. Not once. The extra bellows draw may be a factor for you depending on lenses. While I have a 500T and have used a 450mm quite a bit, I have never bothered buying the 720mm rear element for my Nikkor: I seldom use the 500mm so it's a question of subject and style. Only you will know. I would say that the universal bellows are essential. I went the most expensive route - my camera had the standard bellows, so I bought the bag bellows (because I do like shooting wide lenses). However, whenever you use the bag bellows, you have to unfold the camera, remove the standard bellows, install the bag bellows, shoot, then replace the bag bellows with the standard bellows before you can fold the camera again - not convenient. The camera cannot be folded with the bag bellows. I finally bought the universal bellows. Great solution. For it's capability, it is extremely compact (look at the size dimensions).

The camera is limited by:

1. limited front rise when shooting subjects which demand a lot
2. limited movements with wide angle lenses (you end up with the front standard in the "box" of the rear standard or with movement of the lens being obstructed by the "box" restricting the movement of the rear element of the lens). I have a Schneider 72mm XL and this is an issue with this lens - you cannot explore the capability of this lens on the camera because of this issue. The "wide angle" configuration is workable, but not ideal.
3. it's expensive

Strenghs:

1. Almost every movement you'll ever want.
2. Well made; very compact
3. Should you decide it's not for you, they seem to have excellent resale values (which I think should be a consideration - it's not often that you will be able to perfectly match your needs with a product on the first attempt, no matter how thorough you are).

I have often considered selling it and buying an 45SU. The 45SU is considerably more bulky and I suspect a little more prone to damage should your friendly luggage transporter decide to take out all of life's displeasures on your unsuspecting camera case. It would undoubtedly be a better solution for somone who sees themselves shooting mostly architecture.

[Bill_1856]

Starting out large format with an Ebony is as d**b as learning to drive in a Ferrari.

[Eric Leppanen]

Todd,

Two years I ago I faced a similar decision, and ultimately selected the SV45U2 for the following reasons. I have never regretted my decision.

1) To my knowledge, the SV45U2 is the only field camera capable of supporting lenses ranging from my SA58XL (which I use with a recessed lensboard in the "wide angle configuration") to the Nikon 800T without changing bellows (or cameras). In particular, it allows me to use the Fuji 600C (which I use with a two inch extended lensboard), which is a razor sharp non-telephoto lens that I find preferable to the Nikon and Fuji telephotos (sharper and more contrasty, front movements are more straightforward). The 600C is also compatible with my 8x10 camera system. If you want to use a 450mm lens for close ups (such as photographing Indian rock art, etc.), then the U2's bellows draw is also invaluable. The Ebony universal bellows is extremely supple and flexible, and there's no substitute for lots of extension!

2) The assymetric movements on the rear standard are definitely worth the money. While rear movements are not always feasible due to distortion, most of the time in my experience this is not a problem, and the availability of assymetric movements not only saves time but has occasionally completely saved my bacon (on some geometrically complex shots it can be excruciatingly difficult to find the proper focus plane, but with assymetric tilt/swing it was a breeze. I can't explain exactly why this happens, it just occasionally does!).

3) Unlike the other Ebony cameras you mention, the SV45U2 supports rear shift, which is useful if you want to create panoramic shots by stitching two frames together (shift to the left, shift to the right, allow one inch of overlap) without fear of parallax.

Of course, if you are dead certain that you will not use lenses longer than 300mm, then the U2 may be overkill and you might be better off with the U.

As with any camera, there are some caveats. At six pounds, the SV45U2 is a relatively heavy camera. And the universal bellows is only a limited subsitute for a true bag bellows. If you want to use the full image circle of a SS110XL or shorter lens, for example, you'll need the bag bellows. But if you only need limited movements with wide angle lenses, then the universal bellows is fine.

[Eric Leppanen]

Bill,

I agree that in general LF beginners should first rent an LF system to determine whether it really will work for them. But I disagree that buying an Ebony right-off-the-bat is dumb. One of the most frustrating aspects of LF for beginners is camera movements, and assymetric movements makes this much, much easier.

[Gem Singer]

Eric,

Both the Ebony SV45TE and the Ebony SV45TI support 50mm. of rear shift to the right and 50mm. of rear shift to the left. See specs. on the Ebony website (www.ebonycamera.com).