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Thread: 300mm APO Sironar-N versus 300mm Sironar-S

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    300mm APO Sironar-N versus 300mm Sironar-S

    Well the Wollensak Triple Convertible I was suppose to get fell through. It looks like I will end up with a 300mm APO Sironar-N because I can get one for a steal. The size and weight doesn't bother me. I know it is a fine lens on its own merit but I am always curious about lens performance (more for the sake of interest than any practical application). So, here is my question...how much better would a Sironar-S be as far as image quality over the Sironar-N? The lens will be used on an 8x10 camera; shots will mainly be pictorial so the larger image circle of an -S does not matter; enlargement will not exceed 30" X 40" but rarely beyond 20"x24"; mostly black and white. If I placed a 20x24 print from a 300mm APO Sironar-N next to one from a 300mm Sironar-S, enlarged from 8x10 film, would I even see any difference? This wouldn't alter my decision as I can't afford the -S anyway....I am just curious about actual image quality differences (size, weight, filters, cost, etc. do not matter)!

    Thanks for the information!

  2. #2

    300mm APO Sironar-N versus 300mm Sironar-S

    At 20X24 on 8X10 I am 100% certain that you will not be able to discern any difference. At 30X40, I am 99% certain too. The only time it may make a very slight difference is if you are using the extremes of the image circle on both lenses - I would expect the S to hold better as it has a larger image circle. A 30X40 from an 8X10 negative is only a very moderate enlargement. I have just spent some time testing all sorts of 150mm lenses. Between most modern lenses there is so little difference in resolution at normal working apertures that you really cannot discern any difference in normal size prints (4X enlargements). You need a 30-40X microscope on the negative to start to discern small differences in resolution, which appears to be all there is between modern lenses. That equates to a pretty big enlargement before you can see any visible differences in prints.

  3. #3
    Is that a Hassleblad? Brian Vuillemenot's Avatar
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    300mm APO Sironar-N versus 300mm Sironar-S

    Hi J.P.,

    I have the Apo-Sironar S 300mm- I was able to get a real good deal on a slightly used one, back before they raised the price. (Now it goes for the princely sum of $2499 new at B&H, well out of my budget!) Although it's one hell of a kick-ass optic, I imagine that it's Sironar-N brother would be just as good. The main differences are that the "S" is better corrected for close-ups, has a larger image circle (it will cover 11X14), and is made from ED glass. At the enlargements you're talking about, especially from black and white, I find it hard to believe that there would be any noticeable differences. I mainly got the "S" since I work in color, and eventually want to do very large enlargements, and happened to stumble across a great deal.
    Brian Vuillemenot

  4. #4

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    300mm APO Sironar-N versus 300mm Sironar-S

    Hi J.P.

    If you get a bad S it will be not as good as an good or very good N version. Some years ago I spook to the mister Ludwig from Gigabitfilm he is a sharpness guru here in EU and he recomandet the N version for best sharpness, if somebody does not table top things!
    So I hope you can sleep better now, bud I know it is very seldom the lens the weekest point in the chain it is more like film flatness in the holder, the groundglass not exactly there where it should be, the holders not very exact and more like this!
    Good light and a very good N I wish for you!

  5. #5

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    300mm APO Sironar-N versus 300mm Sironar-S

    " If I placed a 20x24 print from a 300mm APO Sironar-N next to one from a 300mm Sironar-S, enlarged from 8x10 film, would I even see any difference? "

    Yes.

  6. #6

    300mm APO Sironar-N versus 300mm Sironar-S

    Bob - shot on 8X10 film? I seriously challenge that contention.

  7. #7

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    300mm APO Sironar-N versus 300mm Sironar-S

    Then you should try it head to head and see for yourself. All the answers here are supposition - not fact.

  8. #8

    300mm APO Sironar-N versus 300mm Sironar-S

    Sorry Bob, but the limiting factor on a 2.5X enlargement is just always going to be the print (it may come as news to you, but prints cannot resolve 70-80lpm). So there is no way in the world that even your great eyes will be able to discern a difference from a printed 2.5X enlargement. I actually do try a lot of this stuff myself - I am not too busy selling lenses and other gear. The last time I actually used a large format camera was yesterday...

  9. #9

    Join Date
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    300mm APO Sironar-N versus 300mm Sironar-S

    Then shoot them side by side and compare negatives or chromes at the same apeture. There is a difference.

  10. #10

    300mm APO Sironar-N versus 300mm Sironar-S

    Thanks Bob - he was comparing prints and that is the point - on a 2.5X enlargement PRINT you will not be able to discern a difference. The question was not about comparing chromes or negatives. Why can you never admit error?

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