Docter Optic lenses – production number query

[Arne Croell]

Some of you may know that I wrote 2 articles on Carl Zeiss Jena lenses and Docter Optic lenses for View Camera (2003), as well as a shorter previous online article on largeformatphotography.info.

The one information that eluded me so far are the production numbers for the lenses produced by Docter in the 5 years between the time Bernhard Docter bought the Zeiss Jena plant (August 1991) and the stop of production after the bankruptcy (some time in 1995/1996). The Zeiss Jena numbers until mid-1991 are known, but not the Docter numbers. For an update of the online article I’d like to have that information and ask for your help:

Docters serial number system followed the model of Zeiss Jena after 1980, where each lens type had its own numbering sequence starting with 1001. Therefore it is possible to deduce the production number from the highest serial number.

I would be glad if everybody who owns a Docter lens could send me the type, shutter type (or indicate barrel), and the serial number. I am not asking you to do that publicly on this site, e-mail it to me at:

docter_lens_query@web.de

I promise to not give the numbers to anybody else; I will only use them to estimate the highest number rounded up to the nearest 10, 50, or 100 (whatever appears most reasonable), and will post the results of this query here.

The lenses in question are: Apo-Germinar (240, 300, 360, 450, 600, 750, 1000mm); Apo-Germinar W (150, 210, 240mm); Doctar WA 65mm;Germinar W (150, 210, 240, 305, 360mm); Germinar S (270, 600mm); Tessar/Doctar lenses for 4x5 and up (135, 180, 210, 250, 300, 360mm).

In addition to lenses marked “Docter Optic Wetzlar” please include also lenses marked “Carl Zeiss Jena” but only those that came in a modern Copal, Compur, or Prontor shutter.

Again, I am looking for type, shutter type (or barrel), and the serial number. If you have several lenses of the same type, the highest number is of course sufficient.
Thanks in advance,

Arne Croell

This text will be crossposted on the forums on largeformatphotography.info, photo.net, apug.org, rec.photo.equipment.large-format

[Ted Harris]

Arne,

I may have sent them to you ages ago but serial numbers from my Apo Germinar 360 and Tessar 210 coming later today via email.

Ted

[Arne Croell]

Here is a short update on the general results for the Docter lenses so far. Thanks to everybody who has responded!

First, I did not get any input on barrel versions. I wonder if Docter ever sold any of them.

Fo the shuttered versions, the numbers are quite small:
Apo Germinar and Apo-Germinar W: Most serial numbers I received are below 1050, all are below 1100. This would indicate a maximum production of not more than 100 lenses per type.

I had no responses on the Doctar WA and Germinar S lenses. For the Germinar W lenses, there seem to be at least 150 units of the 150mm version, lower than 50 for all others.

The Tessars are more difficult to figure out. Apparently, serial numbers are not that consistent there, since I received 4 different nominations of Tessars without any serial number at all, one or two high serial numbers that still follow the Zeiss series (8XXX, 15XX) but are marked Docter otherwise, and several following the regular numbering scheme in the low 10XX range – those are all below 1050.

So far the numbers indicate a very low production for the 4-5 years Docter was making these lenses, but more input is needed.

Please keep those numbers coming!

[RJ-]

I would be glad if everybody who owns a Docter lens could send me the type, shutter type (or indicate barrel), and the serial number. I am not asking you to do that publicly on this site, e-mail it to me at:

Hi Arnie,

Found this thread whilst looking for MTF curves for the Docter Wetzlar WA 65mm f4.5 mounted in a Copal 1 which I use. It is rather cumbersome albeit delightful to use for imaging compared to the Rodenstock Grandagon 65mm f4.5 since the rear element has to be unscrewed in order to fit into the Wista lens board.

I don't know if you are still continuing the collation of serial numbers?

One reason why it might be so hard to find serial numbers for the Docter WA 65mm f4.5: mine has no serial number.

It may have been produced in extremely small quantities without serial numbering. Beautiful lens with better coverage than the other 65s' out there. It is erroneously listed as having an 85mm front filter: a standard 86mm ring fits.

Kind regards,

RJ