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Thread: 1903 Dagor

  1. #11

    1903 Dagor

    Robert - I'm envious, since my oldest Goerz is a 10 3/4" Goerz Double-Anastigmat Type B, Series 1c (No. 5), serial #140xxx. My oldest actually marked Dagor is another 10 3/4" f6.8 serial #150xxx. So does anyone have an idea at what serial number Goerz started using the Dagor name on the lenses? Also, were the early Goerz US serial numbers all used? Were there 30,000 lenses made between Robert's #120xxx and my #140xxx? Did Goerz make (and number) 120,000 lenses before Robert's, or was the first digit in the number meaningless and the first numbered lens was actually 100,001 or maybe 110,001? I understand there aren't actual records of early Goerz serial numbers. However, knowing the numbers on lenses older than Robert's would be interesting. Does anyone have a US Goerz with a 5 digit, rather than 6 digit serial number?

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    471

    1903 Dagor

    Leonard, You have probably seen the same list of serial numbers i have. from Eddie Bolsetzian's list....apparently he is a former goerz tech.....for product year 1902 - 1903... serial # 70001 -140935

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    505

    1903 Dagor

    October the 19th 1903 was the completion date for this lens. It was from a batch of ten that were destined to be shipped to a Photographic Emporium in Paris the next week. It was a rush shipment and the lens finisher Otto Schroeder was happy to work overtime that Sunday as his daughter was ill with tuberculosis and the doctors bills were quite crushing. The lenses made their way to Paris on schedule and were sold within six weeks as an order for another ten came in shortly thereafter.

    The next appearance of the lens you have came from 1917 where it was sent back to the factory for repair. Apparently it was used in an observation balloon that was shot down. The remenants of the balloon landed on the German side causing some damage to the lens rim, it sent back for repair. The new owner of the lens Mr Helmut Schwartz lived outside on Munich and spent a great deal of time shooting wildflowers in a vase by his window since he lost a leg and couldn't move about freely. He derived an income from cyanotypes that can occasionally be seen in better galleries and are noted for the fine detail and brilliant blue due of course to the refined chemicals he used in the production of the prints.

    His oldest son came to Pennsylvania in the late 1920s where he ran a successful dairy business. He inherited the photo bug and took some quite remarkable pictures of his livestock. Most have been lost but I did see one in a seed store a number of years ago while visiting a friend in the upstate New York area. It was a little tattered at the edges but the large format qualities were quite evident. The lens was again returned to the factory as one of the rear elements was replaced after the lens was kicked by a horse who later went on to win several small handicap races before being sent to the glue factory. Strangely enough the glue from the factory was used to make leather lens caps that were then sent to a large store in New York that outsourced them for the Goerz American Optical Company.

    The lens was sent to the the branch factory in Riga, Latvia and had the damaged lens replaced while the overall cell was given some fresh balsam. As the lens was shipped from this branch to Pennsylvania world war two broke out and the ship that this lens was being transported on was torpedoed just off New York. A salvage company came out and managed to raise the hulk for scrap as it was in relatively shallow water(you may notice the glass has a little bloom which the sea water aided). The wrapping around the lens had deteriorated so no address or ownership was clear.

    The salvage company was run by a rough and ready type of chap called 'Salty' by his friends and Peter Grimes by others. He was certainly someone who knew quality when he saw it and he took the lens home. The iris had rusted away so was sent to the factory for replacement, the iris assembly is a later type that had fewer blades as you may notice. Peter taught himself how to use a Korona 8x20" he found in a camera store that was going out of business. He was taken at once by the shape purchased it immediately for a mere $20 with six holders. While on vacation in Yosemite, California he took a course in photography(his first) from Ansel Adams who tried to swap the lens for a few of his prints (including a vintage contact print of Moonrise!) and a replacement Protar. He politely refused much to Ansels chagrin and took the lens back to New York where about thirty years later it was sold from a dealers shelf, no doubt from residue of his estate.

    I don't have any records beyond that but I hope it helps a little. Sandy is correct with the particulars otherwise.

    CP Goerz.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Whittier, CA
    Posts
    1,138

    1903 Dagor

    MMhm Andrew, if they hadn't produced the movie ' the red Violin', i would recommend you to elaborate for a script .
    Great job in writing as usual.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Jul 1998
    Location
    Lund, Sweden
    Posts
    2,214

    1903 Dagor

    No haggis?

    Have you read Bill Duncan's "Smiling School for Calvinists"? Your stuff is better, but he's more convincing on the watery stuff.

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    471

    1903 Dagor

    Andrew, As always I welcome the wisdom you continue to bestow upon us. But in this case I was hoping you could provide something a little more in-depth. Thanks again for your efforts.............................................P.S........that was great...lol

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    now in Tucson, AZ
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    3,618

    1903 Dagor

    Gee, I just went to the old lens box and pulled out my ancient 8-1/4" Goerz Double-Anastigmat Series III, N0.3; #140196. This one is in a broken Wollensak 'Regular' shutter. All I know of its history is that a friend of mine found a box of old camera stuff on the curb. He took the box because it contained the pieces of several 5x7 Korona-type flatbed view cameras, a broken wooden tripod or two, and this lens. I confiscated the lens from him because he had no intention of photographing with it, and I do. Could this be true? Naah, who'd believe such a wild story? A Dagor in the curbside trash? You gotta be kidding me.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    San Joaquin Valley, California
    Posts
    9,599

    1903 Dagor

    Mark,

    Actually, during a freakish inland waterspout near Wuppertal in 1904, several carp in a local lake and a barge carrying a shipment of Dagors from the Berlin plant that was plying a nearby canal on its way to the Rhine(yes, the Captain of the barge got lost as he suffered from a rare navigational disorder that was enhanced by the consumption of St. Pauli Girl at temperatures in excess of 90 degrees f.---yes, it was an unseasonable warm day) The carp, barge , and dagors(19inch f7.7s by the way) all came crashing down in the vicinity of the ancient hero/woodcutter "Lefty" von Budweiser's monument commemorating his victory over the the local bully and warloard "Vinny of the Bad Breath". The carp were gathered and pickled while the barge and its cargo of dagors where completely destroyed on impact with the cobblestones(the Captain and crew having jumped ship before terminal altitude was reached.) This event marked the modern world with two notable bits of historic phenomenon: 1) A strange Wuppertallian festival where local carp are catapulted into the air on the hottest day of the solstice to reinact the "carp rain" of 1904 and 2) the scarcity of 19" Dagors.

    Cheers!
    "I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Tonopah, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    6,334

    1903 Dagor

    I've got a contender. It's waiting for a working Autex shutter if anyone has an extra one.

    <body>

    </body>

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1

    1903 Dagor

    I acquired an old Goerz lens @ an estate sale several years ago, it is similar to the last entry I read on these lenses. DOPPEL-ANTISTIGMAT. F:7.7.D.R.P. No.7437. Serie III No.6.F=300 m/m No.31237. It looks like the iris goes from F 6 to F 768 (!). I'm no longer shooting large format so any info about the lineage/value of this lens or suggestions about disposing of it would be greatly appreciated...Thanks...Jack B.

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