eBay and PayPal alternatives?

[kleinbatavia]

Good day Ed,

If you have suggestions on dedicated marketplaces for LF gear, I'm sure a number of us would be quite interested...

[Alan Klein]

I found eBay problematic and except for inexpensive items where I can absorb the loss, I'd don't deal with it if I can avoid it. I prefer my serenity over the prospective savings which is sometimes illusory.

[StoneNYC]

How can I put this in a way that won't get deleted...

I've bought things with money orders in the past and had no recourse when trying to return an item that did not arrive as described.

PayPal is much safer and the extra cost is worth the peace of mind.

[Corran]

Good day Ed,

If you have suggestions on dedicated marketplaces for LF gear, I'm sure a number of us would be quite interested...

+1

I found eBay problematic and except for inexpensive items where I can absorb the loss, I'd don't deal with it if I can avoid it. I prefer my serenity over the prospective savings which is sometimes illusory.

?
I've only had problems as a seller on eBay. Any problems with an item bought on eBay is quickly rectified with a return. If the seller doesn't offer a return that doesn't matter. If it's not as described, a return must be honored.

That said, regarding eBay and "dedicated marketplaces for LF gear," I've had many items that sold for 10-20% more on eBay after sitting here in the Classifieds unsold for a while. Larger market / more eyes on the product and all that.

[DonJ]

Traveling and ordering from the EU at times, I just paid EUR 1076 for a winning bid of USD 865 (plus 36 shipping). At todays spot rate, this means a whopping equivalent of USD 1183.

But you're not paying the eBay or PayPal fees when you buy (aside from the exchange rate fee), so why is this transaction relevant to your message?

[EdSawyer]

It all depends on the item of course. Ebay can be good for buying, unless it's something that doesn't come up often, then the price tends to be high. It is ok for selling but the fees and regulations and all the nonsense are a bit off-putting to say the least.

I am sure most of the LF marketplaces are fairly well known. I would group them by camera-related rather than LF-specific, but I usually use these:

LFPF (this forum)
apug.org
fredmiranda.com
luminous landscape
photo.net
rangefinderforum
photography-on-the.net

If you are gear-brand-specific (mostly for 35mm and small gear), there are several brand-specific ones like nikonians, pentax forum, etc.

hope that helps
-Ed

[Old-N-Feeble]

IMO, eBay and PayPal is often better than buying or selling on forums. They offer excellent protection for buyers and a modicum of protection from scammimg buyers. I never advertise things for sale on forums anymore. My eBay feedback is nearly 1100 and is 100 percent. I've never had a buyer problem on eBay that I couldn't resolve. Conversely, I have one forum buyer issue that simply will not go away.

[HMG]

In search of that particular lens or piece of kit, I'm sure almost everyone ventures onto evil bay or has done so in the past. Now with the spin-off of payP, things have gotten worse than ever. Besides the fact that payP offers buyer, but no seller protection (blocked payments on defective or never received items that were fine and signed for on delivery, switches and returns, etc), rates have quietly been increased (again). We're now looking at the auction fee (8%) plus payP fee (3.5%) and the greedy hands on the exchange rate (a further 3.5%) on top of which the seller pays the payP commission too. This combined puts rates above those of many conventional auction houses, even if only looking at the buy side... And let's not get into customs charges, although these have nothing to do with either of the previously mentioned parties. Traveling and ordering from the EU at times, I just paid EUR 1076 for a winning bid of USD 865 (plus 36 shipping). At todays spot rate, this means a whopping equivalent of USD 1183. Including shipping this is a 32% mark-up. I knew this in advance and am still happy I won as the auction included a few lenses I really wanted. However, the difference is exorbitant! We can buy and sell on the forum, which is great, but are there any alternatives? And if not, is it not about time to have one? Interested in your views and suggestions.

My numbers vary a bit from yours. I figure 14% to sell (eBay and PP combined). This includes the fees on the shipping cost. Of course it will vary a bit based on the cost of shipping relative to the total value.

I just looked at the cost to convert from USD to Euro - about 2.5% compared to the rate on xe.com. But the paypal rate is effectively a sell rate with the rate shown on xe.com is the midpoint between buy and sell (essentially the spot rate). There will always be a cost to convert currency; paypal's might be slightly on the high side, but probably less than most banks for small sums. So, unless you were experiencing fluctuating exchange rates, hard to see how you got from USD 897 to 1183.

[koh303]

My numbers vary a bit from yours. I figure 14% to sell (eBay and PP combined). This includes the fees on the shipping cost. Of course it will vary a bit based on the cost of shipping relative to the total value.

I just looked at the cost to convert from USD to Euro - about 2.5% compared to the rate on xe.com. But the paypal rate is effectively a sell rate with the rate shown on xe.com is the midpoint between buy and sell (essentially the spot rate). There will always be a cost to convert currency; paypal's might be slightly on the high side, but probably less than most banks for small sums. So, unless you were experiencing fluctuating exchange rates, hard to see how you got from USD 897 to 1183.

Add to that quantitative discounts from Ebay and Paypal, then the actual cost to sell drops to 8-9% operational cost (including the % charged on collected shipping rate). The cost of shipping is usually on the buyer or part of the overall selling price, so i am not sure that can be counted, because you will have to pay for shipping at any venue.
Add to that a minor loss for the buyer (not the seller) on exchange rate (unless he paid with the same currency already in his account in which case there is no exchange rate) and there you have it.
I too have a hard time making the jump from 897$ to 1183 Euro.

[bloodhoundbob]

I haven't used eBay in years, since the inception of PayPal. I never liked that fact that it was owned by eBay, and there was a huge scandal years ago involving eBay employees committing fraud with PayPal accounts. Although they always bragged about the security of PayPal, my account was hacked and only caught by the fraud department of my credit card company at the time. The one time I was ripped off by a seller who didn't send all the film holders I purchased from him, eBay refused to get involved to rectify the situation. That being said, I will reluctantly enlist the aid of my 90 y/o WWII friend who deals on there frequently, in order to dispose of my Deardorff. It seems any buy/ sell site can be problematic, as the "buyer" of my camera on this forum pulled a Houdini act on me. Caveat Emptor, indeed.