Bob Salomon, the Heliopan trademark, and ebay

[Donald Hutton]

I listed a couple of sundry items on Ebay this evening. I just received this email back from Ebay:

"Dear Donald M Hutton (donald_hutton@ameritech.net),

**PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT EMAIL REGARDING YOUR LISTING(S)**

We would like to let you know that we removed your listing:

3867700637 Nikon 52mm Circular Polarizer - Excellent
3867697565 B+W 77mm MRC Circular Polarizer - Excellent



because the intellectual property rights owner notified us, under penalty of perjury, that your listing or the item itself infringes their copyright, trademark, or other rights.

We have credited any associated fees to your account. We have also notified the bidders that the listing(s) was removed, and that they are not obligated to complete the transaction.

If you relist this or any other similar items on eBay, your account likely will be suspended.

If you believe your listing was ended in error, or have questions regarding the removal of this listing, please contact the intellectual property rights owner directly at:

H.P. Marketing Corp.
info@hpmarketingcorp.com

Pretty amusing that Bob thinks that HP own the intellectual property rights to B+W and Nikon - can't wait to see how little the "penalty for perjury" amounts to.....

I am astounded that any company thinks it is good policy to prevent people from selling their products second hand.

[John Berry ( Roadkill )]

Shows there is nothing intellectual going on at HP.

[Isaac Crawford]

Just out of curiosity, are you in Canada? I seem to recall him getting in a snit beacuse someone was trying to "import" a Heliopan filter. Now that I think about it, Schneider USA is the one that *might* hold those sorts of rights on B+W filters, what's he got to do with either of the companies you listed? I'd reccomend getting in touch with Bob and see what's going on... I agree that he probably doesn't have a legal leg to stand on when it comes to reselling used merchandise, after all, you probably didn't sign any sort of contract or even look over a license agreement when you bought the thing...

Isaac

[Glenn Kroeger]

Could this be spam? I received an email tonight suggesting my account was suspended. Logging directly onto Ebay confirmed that no such thing was true!

[Donald Hutton]

I'm in the USA. I think that common courtesy would be that Bob should contact me, although I have noticed in the past from his public postings that courtesy/tact and BS do not often meet. My immediate response is simply to vote with my wallet - sell every Rodenstock lens I own, every heliopan filter and any other HP Marketing product; let as many people as possible know of my experience: the sense, the courtesy and the value (i.e. lack of it of owning anything where the trademark owner feels that you should never be allowed to sell it), and leave it that. Their business must be really tanking to have employees spend their time monitoring ebay listings on a Saturday night and having them removed under false pretence...

[Philippe Bedfert]

Dear Don,

You could try to place the auction in an other eBay, for instance eBay UK or Australia or France. As the legislation are quite different from US, I don't think you could be prosecuted.

[Brian Ellis]

The "penalties of perjury" stuff is total nonsense. Whether you violate copyright lor tradmark laws is a question of law. Perjury applies to statements of fact made under oath, not questions of law. Not to mention the fact that neither e bay nor HP Marketing has the power to cause you to say anything under oath. Finally, while I'm not a copyright lawyer the idea that you violated anyone's trademark or copyright by using the brand name of items you own when you sell them seems totally ridiculous. You own the filters, you're entitled to sell them, in order to sell them you have to be able to tell people what brand they are. I'd suspect some sort of hoax here. Was your listing in fact pulled?

[Donald Hutton]

The listing was in fact pulled... The point is that Ebay pulls the listing on the undertaking that the complaining party has a valid complaint (hence the perjury line) and then throws the onus of sorting that out back on me. Clearly, HP marketing has no intellectual property rights to Nikon, so there must be some sort of mistake, but I have to send off begging emails to Bob Salomon. I feel strongly that if anyone has to take some action, it should be him apologizing for an clear mistake and a pathetic business practice (apparently, HP Marketing regularly have people's listings removed if they mention the word Heliopan - which mine did not, but I am trying to sell some other Heliopan filters I own as I have moved to a Lee filter system). I'm just really frstrated that in a community of largely extremely likeable and helpful folks there are extremely obstructive individuals out there.

[Paddy Quinn]

I believe Solomon did this in the past when a Heliopan filter originally purchased from the US was offered for sale on ebay USA by a Canadian seller. - there was a series of threads about it either on here or on photo.net. I have heard of several others, but the offended parties didn't make as much noise.


http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/496683.html


http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0063E3

HP Marketing apparently was the US trademark holder for Heliopan. Solomon erroneously believed that trademark law required a vigorous defence of any such infringement on the Heliopan trademark at the risk of losing the trademark.

Solomon's and HP's stance was completely contradicted elsewhere and stated as incorrect and disproportionate in a response by a law professor who was a specialist in trademark law. In fact HP's response appeared to nothing more than their usual heavy and high handed behaviour and also displayed what appeared to be either very bad legal advice or clear ignorance of the law concerned.

Don I would suggest also posting this complaint on photo.net if the facts are correct and you are "merely" an individual (as opposed to a store) selling personal items

Bear in mind with ebay - they basically do what they want. They have stated in the past that if law enforcement were to call the looking for full details of any sales or member records they would happily provide them - no warrants or such - just a call from "legitimate" law enforcement.

[David Luttmann]

If this is indeed the manner in which HP treats people selling an item, which by the way IS within their legal right, than indeed we can do more harm by simply spreading the word everywhere possible. Maybe thousands of people NOT buying their products, and them knowing why, may change this heavy handed, ill-informed public relations approach.

But for me it's simple. ...never will I buy another HP product.....EVER.