Cibachrome Classic Shortages and Substitutes

[bob carnie]

Hi Keith

I think I was setting you up on that personal control thing! sorry

Using photoshop and a lambda, chromira, lightjet, deveere digital enlarger, one can have all the personal control you speak of. This technology is relatively new ,in Canada I think that our lab is the only digital/traditional lab exposing cibachrome/ fibre paper using a traditional enlarger and as well using photoshop to manipulate files and exposing directly onto these materials. There is no intermediate step that you mention. I believe there are a few shops in NA doing this as well in Europe. I have been waiting 15 years for the technology to advance to a point that I can start experimenting this way. As I stated I have an ink jet machine here and have the great luxuray to do direct comparisons immediately , material to material.

Frankly I do not think one process is better than the other, I have a print of a floral subject that we printed ink jet months ago, the client came back in and ordered a ciba, After viewing the prints I prefer the ink jet as the method matches the feel of the image, even thought the ciba may match the original trans more closely. But my job was to make a believable floral image and the ink jet won hands down.
Another client photographs wet rocks in Labrador , rich in colour and metallic vibe. A ciba in this case blows away the ink jet.

I have no arqument with anyone saying that inkjets are beautiful , but when the discussions starts bashing one product over the other it gets silly.

Cibas are extremely high gloss, some people absolutely hate them, others adore. You should see a scala trans printed on Ciba properly,
Ink jets are generally printed on a beautiful paper stock that is quite alluring to a lot of photographers. Any thing with natural fabrics and earth look amazing on this stock as well as portraits.

People choose their choice of materials and push their qualitys and that is ok , but to start comparing them it gets quite hard to decide which is better.
A simple thing to try is to compare the different black and white papers out there. I did last week and after printing 9 different emulsions , I was suprised to find merit in all 9.

[Keith Laban]

Hi Bob

Had a feeling you might have been when you said "we are using a Lambda digital writer to expose ciba from digital files" in your earlier post ;-)

This would certainly be an option for the occasional high gloss print but generally speaking I much prefer matte prints on cotton rag papers for most of my work. However for others and other subject matter this would undoubtedly be a worthwhile option.

Printing with the Ultrachrome process simply allows me a degree of personal control that would be virtually impossible or impracticably expensive using any other method. I will often test print a file by producing many "test strips", remember those from the good old days, altering the master file when and if necessary. I also have quite a collection of paper/ink profiles for each of the papers I use and will often experiment by varying these and the printing intent until the print is exactly as I want it. Of course all this would be possible using your Lambada option or the LightJet and Chromira options, but again would be impracticably time consuming and expensive when using a third party to produce my prints. Owning and using an Ultrachrome printer gives me the freedom and creative control that was merely a dream a few years ago

I wish you and your service all the very best and sincerely hope that Ilford keep producing and supplying the Ciba product and Chemistry to you.

www.keithlaban.co.uk

[bob carnie]

Hi Keith

I hope Ilford keeps producing for years as well.

You are right , the ability to control the process is an pleasure , and I understand your reasoning.
My services are tailored made for my clients who actually are present during the printing process. We have started to branch out with our FTP site, with some of the people I have met here and on another photo discussion group.
It is a leap of faith as I cannot speak personally with the client and as well not see the expression on their face when viewing their work.
It is difficult working third party ( out of town) and it is a process that I am trying to learn. A lot of my clients come to Toronto for an initial printing session to get a bond with each other and it does help. I also encourage my clients to learn to print themselves as they get an appreciation for the process.
That is why I like proof prints with any job as something to aim for.
good luck with your printing

[Frank Bagbey]

This has been a great thread. However, I would like to see more input regarding the choices museums use to choose color photography collections, whether any museums are interested in any digitial color prints in their collections as opposed to Ilfochrome/cibachrome classic
materials. Has anyone in this forum sold either type print to a museum or high end collection?

Regarding what my lab is telling me--which started this thread--I think the only thing to do is order a print or two of what they are trying to push now and run an accelerated fading test situation of my own. Might be a little expensive. I KNOW what the longevity of Cibachrome is, I have 20X30s and other size prints that have hung under 24 hour a day flourescent exposure and indirect daylight for almost 20 years. I removed a few from their mats and checked for any fading as opposed to what was under the mats. I did not find any evidence of fading either under the mat or the remainder exposed regularly to light.

If the lab, which has been absolutely the greatest for the longest time, no longer wants to print Ilfochrome/Cibachrome, maybe it is just time to find another lab. It would be a shame.
Nothing beats unwrapping a beautiful 20X30 or 30X40 and literally being blown away by the fantastic quality!