Beginner advice on movements/bulk/field v. mono

[Matt Powell]

I've been looking deeper into purchasing my first 4x5 camera for a couple of weeks, thought I'd ask for a little advice in narrowing my focus. I'll be working primarily on location, with wide to normal lenses (150mm at the longest end, 75 or 90 at the short if workable), in a sort of general-purpose usage. Little or no landscape, some architectural (but not as a business or professional need), mostly 'art'/portraiture/etc..

Ideally, I'd buy a monorail for the widest range of movement, but my only experience with 4x5 has been a loaned Calumet 4x5 - between the focusing cloth, Texas humidity and bulky case I'm a little worried about that route. A field camera would be ideal for what I want to do (a camera to carry with me on road trips and around the area), but I'm worried that limited movements would make it difficult to narrow focus as much as I'd like for certain artsy images.

Bulk is much more of a concern than weight, I won't be hiking for miles and hours but I hated the inconvenience and problems of the Cadet package. My budget is roughly $1000, give or take, I'm not looking to jump into anything immediately.

I'm also not sure exactly how the difference in movement between a Shen-Hao field, a Badger M2/Toho FC-45X and normal monorail (ToyoView 45CX or similar) alters final usability in terms of images. How limiting are limited movements? Is it feasible to wander around an area (drive/walk) with one of the intermediate monorails (the Badger or a Sinar F1)? How much meaningful movement is lost with a Shen-Hao compared to a FC-45x/M2?

Recommendations for literature that covers this sort of question - illustrated differences in movements, etc. would also be highly appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt Powell

[Nick_3536]

If you're working out of a car then you could haul anything. If the area isn't too wild then you could get yourself a cart and pull/push the stuff.

Portraits aren't big users of movements.


http://www.fiberq.com/cam/gundlach/home.htm

That's an old portrait camera. Not exactly a lot of movements.

Now look at it from the other end. Lenses with a lot of movements tend to be bigger and more expensive.

Best thing I can say is borrow/rent a field camera and see. Or even buy a cheap press camera like my B&J. Spend some time with it and figure out what sort of movements you want. Spending some money on the cheaper cameras will let you make your mistakes without wasting a lot of money. Maybe try a Calumet CC400. Very cheap on the used market. Figure out what you hate/like about it.

You might want a longer lens for portraits. The lenght of the bellows on the Shen Hao might be more of an issue.

[Steve Sherman]

Matt,

I have been roaming the western landscape for near 25 years. The first ten years or so with a Meridian 4X5 model "B" which has 4" square lens boards. The camera is a wonderful inexpensive copy of the Linhof Tecknica. It is a metal folding press type camera. The camera on the used market has recently risen to $500.00+ because it is all you could hope for as far as user freindly and limited budget. The camera has all the movements you will ever need in the field. Radical movements which you see in camera advertisments are never needed excepting the rare table top shot, never in the field. I have gotten myself in very tight areas in remote canyons and you will run out of lens covering power before you will approach the limits of the camera's movements.

You indicate you would like to use shorter lens which require even less movements than longer lens. The Meridian has a drop down bed which allows a 90mm lens to be used. The short coming of the 90mm on this camera is it is difficult to get much rise out of the lens board. My 90mm lens was mounted off center on the lens board in an effort to offset that problem.

I realize I am pushing the Meridian, reason is it affordable and has all the movemnets you could hope for in the field. The simply fact is any field camera will have more movements than you could ever need in the field until you begin to approach the limits of the bellows length.

Happy hunting!

[jerry brodkey]

I think you will be surprised at how little movement you will actually need, particularly

if you are doing things like portraits or wider angle shots. Perhaps font rise

will be your most extreme movement if you are doing architecture. For landscapes probably some

front tilt of small degree will be needed which most cameras will easily provide. Remember that a lot

of movements are designed to improve sharpness by changing the main plane of focus. General purpose doesn't need

much of that and wide angle lenses have wider depth of field anyway. Portraiture doesn't really need it at all unless

you are incorporating the person into a structure that you want to be in focus. I think your best bet is to go with a

standard flat bed field camera but just make sure that it has enough bellows draw. If you are really interested

in portraits you will probably need some longer lenses in the future and may want the longer bellows.

Before settling on a particular camera, give some consideration as to how you will carry it around and how easy it is

to set up. Most people put all their stuff in a backpack, not a case. Also a monorail is harder to set up than a field camera.

If you are not interested in landscapes, why do you want 75 or 90mm lenses?

Jerry

[Frank Petronio]

Even the wooden folding cameras will probably provide plenty of movements for your needs, so I would choose based on bulk, price, and personal preference. You can always buy a Shen-Hao (or almost anything else) and resell it on eBay for nearly what you paid for it, if you want to try something else - a nice way to experiment (although spouses will think you are nuts.)

If I was aiming for a middle level camera, I would consider used Linhof Technika IVs; Wista VX or SP metal folding cameras, the METAL Toyo folders, the older Arca-Swiss monotails, or a clean Sinar Norma (older model than the F - very well made and perhaps the best value.) The lightweight Badger and Toho models are more specialized lightweights, and may not be the best models to learn on or to use as your only camera.

Discussions of whether to get a box or monorail abound here - both are good choices, and you should probably try them before deciding.

The old Calumet is a good camera, but the case does get in the way. Sorry, but focusing cloths are still part of the game for most people... alternative viewing methods have their own compromises.

And off to another 50-posting thread...

[Ted Harris]

I iagree that virtually any camera you choose will provide enough movements; thus, pick the one that feels the best, meets your style and needs and your budget. Your lens selection does make me scratch my head. You said art/portraiture wuld be your main uses but that simple term covers a lot of ground. Generally speaking a 150 mm lens will not serve you very well for anything beyond full bidy portraits. In order to get half body or head and shoulders you will hve to move in rather close. Of course, once you start talking longer lenses then you DO LIMIT your camera choices to ones that have enough bellows to handle yoru longest lens. If you stick in the 180 - 210 range you should still be fine with almost any choice. Meanwhile, want to give us some more information on exactly what you will be shooting?

[Gem Singer]

Hi Matt,

Since you stated that you hated the inconvenience of the Calumet Cadet monorail, and you want to keep the total package price around $1000, you would probably do very well with a 4x5 Tachihara and a Fujinon 125 CM-W lens. That package can be purchased new from Jim, at Midwest Photo Exchange (www.mpex.com). You can probably save a little more if you purchased an slightly older Fuji lens, like a 125W. Previously owned 4x5 Tachi's, in good condition, are scarce.

The 125mm. focal length would be a nice short lens to start with for architecture and general use. Later on, you could add a longer lens, such as a 210, for portraiture, etc. The 4x5 Tachi is small sized, light weight, and has ample movement capability for the type of photography you describe.

[Gem Singer]

Matt, P.S.

Since you mention the Texas heat, if you live near the Irving, Texas area (DFW airport), give me a call, and I will be glad to show you my Tachi outfit, for comparison.

[Eric Leppanen]

Matt,

There is a "like new" 4x5 Tachihara for sale on Ebay right now, whose auction closes on Friday (12/31). The current bid price is $400. This seller does not accept credit cards so be careful if you go this route.

[steve simmons]

Before selecting a camera you need to decide on several things - how long/short should the bellows e (depnds on the lenses you want to use) and how many movements do you really need. IMHO the only essential ones are front and rear swing and tilt. With these movements you can create shift an rise and fall. These questions and their answer's are more important than folding or monorail. When and if people give you specific suggestons in these forums ask them the above question so you know the context of their answers. Some cameras are better suited to long lens work, others for shorter lenses, and some for mid-range lenses. Your bellows should be at least 25% longer than the longest lens you want to use and if you want to easily use a lens shorter than 90mm then you need, in my opinion, a camera that will allow you to use a wide angle/bag bellows.

Take your time, do some thinking and some research and then have fun.

We have an article on our web site called Gettig Started in Large Format that might be helpful. There are several other articles as well

www.viewcamera.com

and then go to the Free Articles secton.

Here is some additional reading

User's Guide tothe View Camera by Jim Stone

Large FormatNature Photography by Jack Dykinga

Using the View Camera that I wrote.

any/all should be available from Amazn.com

In addition to this forum there are two others you might ask advice on

www.apug.org not just large format but has a good large forat section

There is also a discussion group on www.viewcamera.com

steve simmons