Is 4x5 big enough?

[John Kasaian]

hi josh

if you have the $$ and patience maybe you should start at 8x10. why not ... you can always shoot paper negatives ( or X-ray film )
to start to make sure you get the load/set up/focus/expose/process routine right so you don't dump a lot of $$ on film to start.
and then when you get used to the whole large format dance start using film.
there are a lot of folks who start with 4x5 and work their way up the food chain to much larger sizes, if you want to start at the top
why not, it will save you the $$ you might have used to buy smaller formats + the film to feed them. and then, if you decide after
a little while that 8x10 is not for you ( too cumbersome, hard to deal with &c ) you will most likely be able to sell the camera for what you
got it for, and move down to a smaller format. just get one lens to start with so it won't be a huge start up cost.
others might be able to do the math to figure out what the translation between your "normal" lens on your current format
and what it will be for 8x10 ..

good luck !
john

I agree. You can start out with an 8x10 without breaking the bank. You can hunt around for deals--they are out there--and alternatives like x-ray film and enlarging paper will save you money, just as will adapting a surveyor's tripod to 1/4-20 for the big camera. Decent lenses that cover the format can still be found for under $400---and barrel lenses for much less!
Two thing$ to con$ider:
1) Bellows----these are very costly to replace but if they aren't too-too bad you can patch pinholes.
2)Film Holders---I haven't seen any deals on these in quite awhile. Used $50 a piece is about as low as you'll find, but you can get by quite nicely with just three for starters.

A simple piece of glass will print your contacts, so no need for and enlarger or even a scanner.

[dsphotog]

I like the proportion of 5x7 for landscapes, and full length portraits.
Plus, a lot of my 4x5 lenses cover 5x7.

[Alan Gales]

I prefer 8x10. Working with that large ground glass is pure joy. Don't kid yourself though, 8x10 cameras are quite a bit larger and heavier than 4x5's. Their lenses and film holders are larger and heavier too. If you like to hike places with a back pack you might prefer 4x5.

I own a 4x5 back for my Wehman 8x10 so I can shoot 8x10 b&w and 4x5 color. That could be a solution for you but it won't work if you like wide lenses for 4x5.

If you want to contact print then buy the 8x10. If you have a burning desire to shoot 8x10 film then do so. You will never know what it's like until you do so. If you don't really know what you want to do then you might want to start out with 4x5.

[Luis-F-S]

I agree. You can start out with an 8x10 without breaking the bank.

Why make it difficult for this poor guy? He's never shot LF and you're all encouraging to start with 8x10. It's not about the money, it's about the order of magnitude of difficulty with going to larger and larger formats. I have all three formats and the majority of the time I shoot 4x5 due to cost, portability and the ability to enlarge. If I want to go bigger, then I shoot 5x7 which I can also enlarge, but I've also been doing this for well over 30 years and taught photography for over a decade. I also own more equipment than anyone has a right to. I started with a 4x5 Wista, then a Zone VI, then Deardorffs and Sinar THEN 8x10. I've probably shot one 8x10 sheet for every 30 5x7, and 200 4x5 sheets. If he's wise, he'll select some of the lenses that can also be used for 8x10. In vintage lenses, almost every Dagor over 81/4 can be used for 8x10. Same with modern lenses 9 1/2" & longer. He can also get a 4x5 enlarger reasonably priced and make prints as large as he'd like to. Let him start sensibly, so he won't get discouraged. At least there are a few folks on this forum who've had the sense to recommend a start with 4x5. L

[John Kasaian]

Why make it difficult for this poor guy? He's never shot LF and you're all encouraging to start with 8x10. It's not about the money, it's about the order of magnitude of difficulty with going to larger and larger formats. I have all three formats and the majority of the time I shoot 4x5 due to cost, portability and the ability to enlarge. If I want to go bigger, then I shoot 5x7 which I can also enlarge, but I've also been doing this for well over 30 years and taught photography for over a decade. I also own more equipment than anyone has a right to. I started with a 4x5 Wista, then a Zone VI, then Deardorffs and Sinar THEN 8x10. I've probably shot one 8x10 sheet for every 30 5x7 and 200 4x5 sheets. He can also get a 4x5 enlarger reasonably priced and make prints as large as he'd like to. Let him start sensibly, so he won't get discouraged. At least there are a few folks on this forum who've had the sense to recommend a start with 4x5. L

I agree with you Luis that 4x5 is certainly sensible, but it isn't his only option. What matters is that whichever format he selects, he takes it out and uses it. If 8x10 is what floats his boat, there are ways of shooting 8x10 on a tight budget (I do this regularly) The thing is, if 8x10 is what he really wants to shoot, then not shooting a 4x5 is an automatic alibi just because it's not 8x10, or for whatever else the OP's reasons are.
I wouldn't know for certain, but I suspect that too many 4x5 cameras sold are collecting dust in a closet of end up on eBay because, for some reason, the buyer decided not to take it out and shoot it. I'd rather the OP not have the size of the negative be his excuse is all.
FWIW, I don't see 8x10 as being any more difficult than 5x7 and probably simpler than 4x5 (easier to focus, anyway) although I agree that managing the bulk and weight, and shopping around for good equipment in his price range will make that part of the equation quite a bit more difficult.
The larger negatives sure make even minute mistakes harder to overlook though!

[Drew Wiley]

Here's my take on the $$$ issue. The learning curve is always a bit more expensive until you figure out what you're doing. But the bigger the format, the more
carefully and methodically you tend to shoot it. In other words, the slightly greater setup effort with 8x10 inherently means you'll conserve film a bit more, and it might not come out any more expensive to shoot in the long haul than 4x5. You can only carry around so many of those big film holders at a time anyway. But in the short run it can cost you more, simply because 8x10 film is a bit harder to find, and you might choose to stockpile more of it in the freezer. Shooting color film in 8x10 is distinctly pricey at this time. Where 8x10 will SAVE you a lot of money is that you'll never need a gym membership. Just carrying the stuff is a good workout! (and that's one reason I carry an 8x10 in my pack even on days I don't need a neg that big!)

[jnantz]

Why make it difficult for this poor guy? He's never shot LF and you're all encouraging to start with 8x10. It's not about the money, it's about the order of magnitude of difficulty with going to larger and larger formats. I have all three formats and the majority of the time I shoot 4x5 due to cost, portability and the ability to enlarge. If I want to go bigger, then I shoot 5x7 which I can also enlarge, but I've also been doing this for well over 30 years and taught photography for over a decade. I also own more equipment than anyone has a right to. I started with a 4x5 Wista, then a Zone VI, then Deardorffs and Sinar THEN 8x10. I've probably shot one 8x10 sheet for every 30 5x7, and 200 4x5 sheets. If he's wise, he'll select some of the lenses that can also be used for 8x10. In vintage lenses, almost every Dagor over 81/4 can be used for 8x10. Same with modern lenses 9 1/2" & longer. He can also get a 4x5 enlarger reasonably priced and make prints as large as he'd like to. Let him start sensibly, so he won't get discouraged. At least there are a few folks on this forum who've had the sense to recommend a start with 4x5. L

if the OP wants to shoot 8x10 why discourage him --- because it is bigger harder to lug around, and film's expensive ?
if he has the time money and patience to start with 8x10, why not ? i am sure he has read up on what using a LF format camera entails.

i wish i started out with an 11x14 and a glass ceiling, but i didn't and am currently looking for a glass ceiling.

[angusparker]

Thanks so much, all of you. Before I was really edging towards 8x10, but now I think I'll go for 4x5. I like the flexibility of being able to use colour film if I want. And due to the learning curve that you've all suggested it would probably be sensible to go with something a little more budget orientated to start with. I think 5x7 offers a really nice middle ground as some of you have said, but I think it might be hard to get film/choice.

It's really nice to know that there are active communities of photographers who are using these formats, and who all seem to be helpful and enthusiastic.

4x5 is the wise choice. 5x7/8x10 are nice for contact printing but more expensive to buy/operate. Learn the ropes on 4x5 and upgrade later if you feel the need.

[Luis-F-S]

if the OP wants to shoot 8x10 why discourage him --- because it is bigger harder to lug around, and film's expensive ?
if he has the time money and patience to start with 8x10, why not ? i am sure he has read up on what using a LF format camera entails.

6x6 to 8x10? Sure, no big deal; you have to pull out the dark slide in both so it can't be that much more difficult. At least I hope Josh buys something I'd like to own, so when he sells it because he's not using it, I can buy it cheap. I've got 9 Hasselblads in the safe that I haven't used since 2004 if anyone's interested. Now where did I put that V8? Thank goodness Richard, John, Angus and a few others agree! L

[Tin Can]

I vote 5x7. The cameras and lenses are not much bigger than 4x5, but way smaller than any 8x10. All 3 formats can cost the same for equipment. Depending.

Film costs about the same per square inch.

If you choose 4x5 you will want an enlarger,

5X7 can be nicely contacted printed anywhere. No enlarger.

Use X-Ray film to start and cut it under red LED. Load holders under red LED. Develop X-Ray under red LED. Contact print with a white lamp.

5X7 has nicer proportions than 4x5 which is the same as 8x10.

You will shoot a lot of failed negatives, unless you are really good with film already. X-Ray makes this learning curve affordable.

Buy a good shutter.