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Thread: LF future

  1. #1

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    LF future

    What is the future of Large Format photography? Will there be film? Will there be supplies for darkrooms? What do we know about the future of films and supplies? Prefer knowledgable answers.

    I am no cleaning out an area in my basement to build a dark room, 12' x 14' and plenty of room outside for mounting, framing etc. I dont want to waste my time if it will all dissapear. I am currently shooting meduim format but dusting off my 4x5, 8x10, and FINALLY the 14x17.

  2. #2

    LF future

    Each of us with a positive attitude and a desire to continue conventional LF photography are a component of the future of this medium and the outlook is very robust. Dick Phillips will max out his production for 2005 shortly and 8x10 and larger camera makers are swamped with business. Since these users are the ones most directly in the line of possible restrictions of film in the future, one could easily argue that the optimism is overshadowing any doubts that we should be in great shape for years to come.

    It is possible that more shake outs may happen in the corporate world with Kodak, Fuji and Ilford as they realign their workforces to the realities of the market as it is and not how they thought it would escalate to lofty proportions 5 or 10 years ago in their long range plans. That said, conservatives estimates I have read in the Wall Street Journal incidate that conventional film it is still a $700 million dollar market in the US alone. Many entities are busy to compete for as big a share of this market as they can get and that is good for LF shooters everywhere.

    And newcomers like Efke are producing fabulous films in just about every size imaginable (I believe even 14x17) and I do not see them contemplating an exit strategy. If anything, they are probably contemplating plant upgrades and higher output.

    Conclusion ? Digital is but another tool in the toolbox for folks to use and it is not the direct competitor to put film out of business. It is a niche market all by itself with its own supply and demand dynamics which is a far cry from the "Damn the torpedoes" mentality pervasive on this and other photography forums just a few years ago.

    Complete your darkroom and have fun with your LF equipment. Good days are ahead of us all!

    Cheers!

  3. #3
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
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    LF future

    I agree with Michael's assessment. Very large manufacturers like Kodak are having to realign due to past miscalculations about the market. Kodak, in particular, plays to the Wall Street pundits who have no clue about the market, but for whom the newness of digital is the buzz. The larger 35mm camera manufacturers have also been stressing digital in their marketing messages, perhaps for the same reason. Plus, digital offers them far more rapid turn-over of their models with only minimal investment in additional technology. But, it was very interesting to see Nikon come out with the F6, in spite of the much-ballyhooed digital onslaught. Meanwhile, the small LF makers have been going great guns, as have the smaller, more-specialized film manufacturers.

    Whether the big guys can re-align their marketing and manufacturing models quickly enough to avoid disaster is still an open question, I think. Ilford, for example, would probably be doing fine (even in a declining/realigning market) were it not for their heavy debt burden. Ilford's receivership might solve that problem for them. Kodak seems only to care about the short-term bottom line. Fuji, though, seems to have a longer-term view of things, and might well supplant Kodak as the leading color-film manufacturer in the future.

    Bottom line, there are enough film enthusiasts, including LF, to keep film manufacturers with rational business plans profitable, and us well-supplied with product.

  4. #4
    MIke Sherck's Avatar
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    LF future

    What do you mean by "knowledgable answers"? Since none of us have (working) crystal balls, any speculation as to what the future might hold will be just that -- speculation. Even informed speculation is probably beyond the scope of this forum, unless a product manager or executive from a manufacturer wants to contribute.

    Ultimately, the best we can do is guess, which may easily be proved wrong by tomorrow's headlines. If you're looking for some sort of guarantee about the state of film photography 5, 10, or 20 years down the road, I'm afraid that you won't find it.

    On the other hand, we can say that there is a market for these products and that there aren't many markets for which demand exists which have been completely abandoned by commerce. Some suppliers are motivated by profit, and they'll continue to supply the market as long as their profit exceeds the potential profit of other uses of their capital. Other suppliers may have a more emotional attachment and might continue to supply product to the market even if they could make more profit elsewhere. Who knows what decisions people might make next year or a decade from now? Not all decisions are rational, as much as economists might like to pretend they are.

    Like most things in life, I personally regard this question as in some ways a matter of faith: I believe that the market is lively enough that I'll be able to continue to buy equipment and materials for the indefinite future. Prices may go up and some of my favorites may wither away, but I believe that at least for the remainder of my lifetime (and I'm not that old, even if today is my birthday!) I'll have no real trouble buying film and paper and, should that wonderful event ever actually happen, a new camera or an additional lens or two. In my opinion, if darkroom work is what you want to do then you should do it. If you love photography (and who else would be crazy enough to haul a great hulking 14x17 camera around?) then you should pursue it.

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

    Mike
    Politically, aerodynamically, and fashionably incorrect.

  5. #5

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    LF future

    kreig,

    I doubt if you'll have any less trouble finding supplies than the guy who originally bought your 14x17!

    Unless you live somewhere like New York or L.A. , buying large format supplies is a "mail order" proposition. While this is inconvenient---you've got to keep stock on hand or risk running out and waiting for the mail to come through---you also have a greater source of suppliers to tap into than back when you could get any color you wanted as long as its kodak yellow.

    In the worst case scenario you can get some plate holders and you'll be able to coat your own glass plates. You can also choose from a dozen or so "alternative" processes so you won't require enlarging papers for printing. What does that require? Glass? Watercolor paper? Common chemicals? A lot of people are doing that already!

    Chill out! Enjoy!
    "I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority"---EB White

  6. #6

    LF future

    What is the future of Large Format photography?

    It is in the future just as the past is in the past.

    My prediction is that it will be here for at least three more weeks, and when you come to a fork in the road... take it.

  7. #7
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    LF future

    Hello Kreig,

    Everyone who posts a question on this forum prefers to get "knowledgeable answers". Unfortunately, with that stipulation, your question cannot be answered by any mortal being, only God would know the answer to your query.

    That said, large format photography seems to be alive and kicking. I talked it Jim, at Midwest Photo Supply, by phone, this morning. He is anxiously awaiting a large shipment of Ebony cameras in most models and sizes. Many of them are already spoken for. He cannot keep enough of these beautiful premium priced cameras in stock. Even 8x10's (at $4000, and up) seem to sell like hot cakes. From my observation, it doesn't look like large format photography is dead. It doesn't even appear to be dying.

    That's as knowledgeable an answer as I am able to give at this time.

  8. #8
    Dave Karp
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    LF future

    Eugene,

    I tried to call Jim today too. They said he was stuck to the phone, and not likely to be off for any length of time. I E-mailed him instead, and told him to say hi to you if you called today!

  9. #9
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    LF future

    Thanks Dave,

    I called early and had to hang on" hold" for quite a while, but eventually Jim and I were able to have quite a lengthy conversation, with a minimum number of interruptions. I ordered a few items. I'll probably receive them on Monday, or Tuesday. However, Jim didn't mention your name. He probably hadn't read his e-mail, as yet.

  10. #10

    LF future

    The photoprocessing industry is investing BILLIONS in photo processing machines like the Fuji Frontier that write digital images to triditional photo paper.


    http://home.fujifilm.com/photokina2002/data/ct_pdf/lb_204e.pdf


    As long as that is going on, I see no reason to expect paper or chemicals to go away.

    Film is paper on a clear base.

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