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Thread: Clamp marks on E6 pro-processed film normal?

  1. #1
    Daniel Geiger
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    Clamp marks on E6 pro-processed film normal?

    Just started out in 4x5. Exposed some Fuji Velvia 100F in Quickloads in a Fuji QL film holder, and dropped them off at a reasonable looking place. After processing, the film has some serial-dot marks (clamps in processing holders?); 8 dots in a row 7 mm long. The row dots are towards the periphery, but may be as much as 3 mm in the image forming region, particularly in the narrower top margin with the film identification notches.

    Is this normal? Or is this inadequate processing procedure?

    Thanks for your help.

    Daniel

    P.S. I thought this would be a common beginner's question, but have not found a previous post on it.

  2. #2
    Jon Wilson's Avatar
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    Clamp marks on E6 pro-processed film normal?

    It sounds like the typical "clip" marks which appear on sheet film which is processed with hangers. Similar marks appear on all of my 4x5, 5x7 & 8x10 sheet film which is processed by the local lab. The reason you don't see similar "clip" marks on roll film which is processed is due to the fact it is cut off when the roll is placed in a sleeve, e.g., 35mm film. Thus, I believe what you have is normal when such film is processes with clips and hangers and processed in tanks as compared with an individual sheet developed in a pan.

  3. #3

    Clamp marks on E6 pro-processed film normal?

    Some labs are more careful than others about where the dip & dunk clamp is placed. Another problem the clamps cause is warping making the sheet scan out of focus near the clamp.

    Higher end labs use a different process (the buzz word for which escapes me) which uses no clamps but belts or something to pull film through the chemicals like a paper processor. This makes very flat clean film but the whole process is controlled by a machine with evident human intervention only on either end. The bad news is that if something goes wrong it is like little miss muffet: its horrid.

    Face it, small labs don't see much sheet film. So if they scratch their collective head when you come in with sheet film, don't expect much. Many photographers use a more distant, big city lab by mail or UPS. Sometimes such a lab charges less offsetting the cost of shipping. That makes me nervous in the Summer when my film may sit on a big brown truck and cook. Be sure to pack your film so that it cannot slide around and scratch itself.
    John Hennessy

  4. #4
    Daniel Geiger
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    Clamp marks on E6 pro-processed film normal?

    Thanks Jon.

    Do all commercially processed E6 sheets have these marks? If I look at some shots in View Camera Magazine, some color shots have been reproduced with Film ID and notches, but no clip marks. Is this pan processes (Never heard of E6 done in pans; have done some 35 mm E6 myself, and some reversal paper in a Jobo processor many years ago in a class)? Some form of rotary tube (noticed some comments re problems with penetration of the developer of the thick film in rotary processed E6)? Is that Photoshop at work?

    If it is possible to get E6 done commercially without clip marks, what is the process called? What do I need to ask the lab? Is there a great price difference? Currently they charge $1.85/sheet at a place in the Los Angeles area, which sounds quite fair.

    I don't think I will go back of processing my own E6; by solving one issue, I'd create a bundle of new ones.

    Thanks again for your assistance.

    Daniel

  5. #5

    Clamp marks on E6 pro-processed film normal?

    Dip-Dunk machines will all leave clip marks. Roller Transport machines will not have clip marks. Also hand processing in a sink line with the stanless steal holders will not leave clip marks. Each system has its own advantages and problems and each lab makes different dicisions.

    You could process it your self in either a sink line - SS tanks and hangers (Calumet) or in a Jobo processor. Either one will give you good results, no clip marks, and is easy to do.

    John Hoenstine

  6. #6

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    Clamp marks on E6 pro-processed film normal?

    I've had four different labs in Chicago process film for me. They all leave clamp marks on the film, but some are more careful than others about not intruding in the image area. Lab One does the best job.

  7. #7
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Clamp marks on E6 pro-processed film normal?

    They're standard here in New York, too. Either leave crop space or get a Jobo or tank line as John suggests and do your own.

  8. #8

    Clamp marks on E6 pro-processed film normal?

    Yeah, just about any dip and dunk place will leave clip marks. I worked in a duping lab that used a dip and dunk machine and we had hangers that were kind of like the kodak ones for holding the film. You slid the film into the frame and then the top part clipped down to hold the film in place. We used that so that there wouldn't be two sets of clip marks on the 4x5 dupes. When I asked why labs didn't process like that to begin with, he told me that on occaision the film will pop out of the holders and be left behind in the processor. This wasn't a big deal with dupes, but he didn;t want to take that kind of chance with camera original film... There is a difference to the look of the film when you compare cine to dip and dunk processing. Dip and dunk has a much different agitation pattern, shoot identical shots and process them differently, you can see the difference. The biggest disadvantage of cine processing is that there is a greater chance of damage to the film. The film has to pass through many different rollers and racks. If there is something on any of the rollers, it will either scratch the film or get embedded into the emulsion. In addition, cine processors have many more gears and so the chance of mechanical problems goes up as well. labs on general like cine processors for roll film because they can be loaded in the light and typically don't take up as much room as a dip and dunk machine.

    Isaac

  9. #9

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    Clamp marks on E6 pro-processed film normal?

    Would you rather that they clamp closer to the edge and risk the film sliding off? Or would you rather pass your film through the scratch potentional of rollers? Or risk doing funky home-hobby E6 in a small amount of chemistry and the related marks and water drops.

    I'll take nice, secure clamp marks anyday, and I will adjust my framing to give me some safe area.

  10. #10

    Clamp marks on E6 pro-processed film normal?

    A very good thing to do when composing on the groundglass is to leave a bit of room all around as most negative carriers do cut off some of the image at the edges. I leave at least 3/16" all around. This should also alleviate the problem of the clip marks from dip and dunk processors. My black and white lab, Labwork, uses Jobo Expert Drums which leave no marks at all; if a roller transport processor is not cleaned meticulously, you may find scratches going in the direction that the film ran through the machine.

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