Grain in burnt in sky

[Lenny Eiger]

I don't print skies like that because I don't like them. I like to see the world as it is. I prefer to show the subtle vs the dramatic - anyone can do exploding, it's a little harder to reveal something. Therefore, at least one option is not to do it at all. I offer this not as criticism or a rule, but just to say there are alternate views.

Another option is to use a red filter when shooting... If you burn a lot you will get grain... it's hard to go against physics.

Lenny

[Michael Wesik]

I wasn't aware that it would be that much different if burning with different filter grades in term of grain. If I burnt it with a 00, that would be affecting shadows and highlights together, right?

I've pretty sure I used a red filter, but perhaps I didn't...I was standing amongst semis in a truck parking area at the time. The negative looks nice and has great detail, but it's fairly flat.

A grade V print will definitely yield more visible grain. It may also show the texture of the paper you're printing with.

I've also never used a warmtone paper that produces brilliant white clouds unless it was selenium or gold toned.

In terms of printing skies, I've found that the best way to create dynamic skies with brilliant clouds is to use a combination of a mid-grade filtration (Grade I 1/2 to III 1/2) with grade V, saving Grade 00 for filling in highlight density to taste as it won't affect your shadows much, if at all. For example, you might choose a grade III or II to set the overall tonality of your image, print it just enough so that your highlight density starts to show, and then layer grade V and 00 to fill out your tonal range (you could use grade 0 as well but it would affect your shadow density more). There are several ways to approach a print in this fashion but you're really just taking advantage of the versatility of polycontrast paper. You can get super creative in how you manage your split grades.

On the other hand, if you found a grade IV or IV 1/2 filtration yielded the right highlight character but your shadows were hammered in too much you could also pre-bleach your print. This would entail making a .001% potassium fericyanide solution and bleaching the print (starting at 5ml per litre rocking continuous for 1 to 5 minutes and up to 50ml per litre rocking for 1 to 5 minutes) prior to going into the developer. This technique harkens back to the graded paper days and has the effect of reducing your contrast while maintaining your highlight values, allowing you to print a grade IV 1/2 highlight with grade II shadows, for example. Different papers react differently to this and your highlight values may change slightly from paper to paper and with the amount of pre-bleach used, perhaps requiring additional exposure to compensate. The pre-bleach bath is discarded after every use.

Hope this helps.

Have fun!

Michael

[Andrew O'Neill]

Keep in mind that Butcher used a 8x10 camera in that image and a bigger negative can make grain seem smaller in the final print.

Probably a factor, even though tri X is grainier than FP4. I think the big one here is the no.5 filter. Post your result here so we can see the difference.