8x20 Questions

[John Jarosz]

+1 all true

[Carl J]

Hi, can you post some photos of the new setup?

Also, costing out 8x20 film for the Ilford annual order may give a bit of sticker shock (hint -- seems like the price of 8x20, 14x17, 12x20 are pretty close, as I recall).

A while back I came across an interesting young documentary photographer, Eliot Dudik (might want to check out his book 'The Road Ends in Water', which is 4x5 color) who shoots 8x20 color on a vintage Korona using 2 sheets of Portra 8x10 in each holder:

http://eliotdudik.com/

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012.../#.VG-qd2TF9MM

Granted, it's a certain 'look' but I think it's effective.

I asked him how he did it and wrote that he 'built a jig to slide two sheets of 8x10 into and attach together before they go into the 8x20 holder'.

Along with Ilford 8x20 and anything else you can find, perhaps using a method similar to what Dudik describes would allow you to also try [single-sided] x-ray film (haven't seen x-ray film in 8x20). Just a thought, anyway.

Seems like a very exciting format and will look forward to hearing more about your progress.

[Michael Kadillak]

Scanning the images and stitching them together is an easy task in this day and age. The late William Corey shot 8x20 and figured this out. My eye continues to go to the center seam and camp out. The marvel of 8x20 is the totality of the image unobstructed. The compromises made to work with this format in size, weight and logistics such as film holders IMHO dictate a commitment to the final image because it is results that drive the process. Otherwise it would be easier to cut the equivalent of 8x20 proportions out of an 8x10 negative and call it good. This reminds me of the mission statement of the German firearms company H&K. "In a World of Compromises - Some Don't"

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Michael, I agree. No compromise here. My first ULF camera was my 8x20. Someone on one of the forums told me I could not build a camera if I did not have a shop full of tools etc. I built the 8x20, got some holders a couple of great process lenses and have never looked back. I find film wherever I can and have a nice stash now. It takes dedication when one moves to ULF. My 8x20 carbon prints have made me very happy and I've done well selling them. They are unique as my clients have told me.

[Michael Kadillak]

Unquestionably Jim what you have accomplished without a shop and with a passion for image making is amazing. I tip my hat to you in respect.

The willingness to challenge the presented format is like the person that said that you could not build an 8x20. It caused you reach to a new level of performance and you in fact did it. ULF is inherently a step above the norm in all respects. Where there is a will there is always a way!

Speaking of which, I need to get the 8x20 out and make some images.....

Michael, I agree. No compromise here. My first ULF camera was my 8x20. Someone on one of the forums told me I could not build a camera if I did not have a shop full of tools etc. I built the 8x20, got some holders a couple of great process lenses and have never looked back. I find film wherever I can and have a nice stash now. It takes dedication when one moves to ULF. My 8x20 carbon prints have made me very happy and I've done well selling them. They are unique as my clients have told me.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Unquestionably Jim what you have accomplished without a shop and with a passion for image making is amazing. I tip my hat to you in respect.

The willingness to challenge the presented format is like the person that said that you could not build an 8x20. It caused you reach to a new level of performance and you in fact did it. ULF is inherently a step above the norm in all respects. Where there is a will there is always a way!

Speaking of which, I need to get the 8x20 out and make some images.....

Michael, thanks for the nice words. 8x20 just looks good! Get that puppy out and use it!! Your work is awesome!

[neil poulsen]

Ilford FP4 Plus and HP5 Plus are available in quantities as small as one box as part of Harman's annual special order period (orders taken late spring, film delivered fall). From this or any other supplier, don't expect volume discounts - just be thankful the film is available at all.

They look different. The differences can be subtle; only you can decide whether they matter for your purposes.

How important is (relative) compactness and (somewhat easier) portability to you? I wouldn't mess with a big monorail in the field myself, but YMMV.

I use Jobo 3062 and 3063 drums for ULF sheets. (Caveat: OK for standard developers, not for pyro.)

Depends on your holders, not just the format. But in general, if you don't have a problem with 8x10, I'd expect you'll be fine with 8x20. I don't use tape with any format up to my maximum of 11x14.

Is there a market for non-contact printed 8x20 photos? I think the extra sales you'd get just because it's a contact print will be negligible. Use the camera and format if you enjoy it and find that it stimulates good work on your part.

I don't use printing frames, because every one I've ever tried gives me bad Newton's rings in the environmental conditions of my darkroom. Instead, I use a plain glass sandwich, with heavy, 3mm thick glass for the top of the sandwich.

Good luck, and enjoy!

Oren, Thanks for your responses and insights.

One question that I have, what do you include in your "sandwich" when exposing the image? You mentioned 3mm. But that's close to an 1/8", which is pretty standard for glass. Is this 3cm, which would indeed be a heavy piece of glass?

[neil poulsen]

Hi, can you post some photos of the new setup?

Also, costing out 8x20 film for the Ilford annual order may give a bit of sticker shock (hint -- seems like the price of 8x20, 14x17, 12x20 are pretty close, as I recall).

A while back I came across an interesting young documentary photographer, Eliot Dudik (might want to check out his book 'The Road Ends in Water', which is 4x5 color) who shoots 8x20 color on a vintage Korona using 2 sheets of Portra 8x10 in each holder:

http://eliotdudik.com/

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012.../#.VG-qd2TF9MM

Granted, it's a certain 'look' but I think it's effective.

I asked him how he did it and wrote that he 'built a jig to slide two sheets of 8x10 into and attach together before they go into the 8x20 holder'.

Along with Ilford 8x20 and anything else you can find, perhaps using a method similar to what Dudik describes would allow you to also try [single-sided] x-ray film (haven't seen x-ray film in 8x20). Just a thought, anyway.

Seems like a very exciting format and will look forward to hearing more about your progress.

Wow, color in this size is a very interesting thought, even if split down the middle. A sales person who helped me when I bought this outfit commented that one could put the split between the two halves of an image into the fold of a book.

I think that I will probably stick with B&W. But, it's thought provoking. We still have a dip and dunk lab in Portland that I believe can do 8x10 color.

Interesting links to the Phoblographer. I noticed that he was using a 12" Dagor. He must really be closing that lens down.

[neil poulsen]

Neil, nice going! For ULF I shoot three. 11x14, 14x17 and 8x20. I get the most compliments on my 8x20 work at every show I've been in. I contact print in carbon transfer and there is nothing like an 8x20 contact print. Scan it and go bigger, enlarge it? I don't know because all I do is contact print in carbon transfer.

Film can be hard to find. You have to stock the freezer. The Ilford run once a year is the way to go or be patient and find it on line. I shoot expired film and develop in a tray one at a time in Pyrocat HD with great results. Four holder is perfect because you will be very selective with your images.

I use double sided tape in my holders. Light tack/medium tack. I've had film buckle out in the field and it is not pretty when that happens.

I use a Gitzo M1570 head on carbon fiber legs and love it. No quick release please! Trouble with weight and torque.

I love the format. Have fun.

Film buckling out in the field sounds pretty scary. Jeepers. Did that happen with 8x20? Where do you get the DF tape? I was thinking about how tape could be used. Does the film stick to the tape as it's being inserted into the holder? Or catch on the edge of the tape?

Of course, I had a 1570 earlier this year that I picked up for $20 and sold it. But, I think that sounds like a good head. One thing about having this conversion kit mounted on the Toyo, it can be set up in stages, versus having to mount the camera on the tripod all at one time.

[neil poulsen]

I can really relate to your feeling of having jumped into the water and all of a sudden you are expecting to execute with this new photographic tool.

Make absolutely no mistake about it. ULF is a labor of love and those of us that have been down the aisle with 8x20 have gained a level of experience that we have (unfortunately) paid for to get to the level of results that are what this process is all about. The most efficient manner of conveying these learned experience is personal conversation. At your beckoned call.

Thanks so much. I have lenses that cover 8x20, so no additional expense there. I don't know that I've ever done much panoramic. But now that I have this outfit, I've been noticing many situations where one could compose interesting images on 8x20.