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Thread: 11x14 pro an cons?

  1. #1

    11x14 pro an cons?

    Hi all, I'm considering moving up to ULF 11x14 and was hoping for a some insight from members that are familiar with ULF. What are the pro's and con's? I have never made a contact print or processed anything over 4x5, although I have veiwed a few contact prints and was very impressed. I chose 11x14 do to the fact that this is what I find myself enlarging my 4x5 negs to. I'm aware through some research in this forum, the AZO forum and others of the obvious weight and size constraints of this format,(I'm young no biggy there) the higher priced film and holders, the processing and printing logistics, subject matter limitations............is the contact print worth the extra effort?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    May 2004
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    11x14 pro an cons?

    There is not a single reason why you shouldn't move upto 11x14. As long as you can afford it financialy, the rewards of the huge negative will be endless.

    I am stuck at 8x10 till i can convince myself that i can afford the move. new trays, equipment, and chiroproctor appointments.. so for now, its 8x10 for me.. hopefully to move up to 12x20.

  3. #3

    11x14 pro an cons?

    I agree with deniz. If you can afford it, make it happen. When I moved from 4x5 to 8x10 I realized that it was much easier to see on the bigger ground glass. It is really a joy, you'll see.

  4. #4

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    11x14 pro an cons?

    I'll go with the others:

    Contact printing offers endless creative and experimentation opportunities, and is worth every pain and ache brought by the weight of the stuff...
    As far as subject matter limitation is concerned, I don't see any situation where a 11x14 camera can't shoot the same subject matter than 4x5, except if you use your 4x5 handheld with a rangefinder... 11x14 was the format of choice for portrait photographers not too long ago, just have a lot of light or tell your subjects to stay still for a second or two...

    If you can afford the move, by all means do it, and welcome to the world of ULF !

    PJ VH
    http://ulf.janvanhove.com

  5. #5
    wfwhitaker
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    11x14 pro an cons?

    If you've never made a contact print consider trying an 8x10 first. When you move into ULF everything is disproportionately more expensive. If you've priced 11x14 film holders yet, you've probably discovered that. You can get six 8x10 holders for the price of one good 11x14 holder. Everything associated with 8x10 is more readily available. And 8x10 is big enough to let you know if using a big negative is what you really want to get into.

    Consider your initial cash outlay. You'll spend a lot less time and money picking up a decent used 8x10 camera (such as an Agfa, Calumet or the like) than you will trying to locate an 11x14 camera.

    Pick one lens and use it to make photographs with the 8x10. Learn to contact print. If you choose a lens with a focal length in the range of 14" to 19", you'll have a lens which will work well not only on 8x10, but on 11x14 as well. A 14" lens on 8x10 is a good portrait length. On 11x14 it's the long side of the format and is a nice moderate wide angle, much like a 35mm lens on 35mm. If you do decide to make the jump to 11x14, your lens and tripod will go with you. You should be able to easily sell the 8x10 and holders if you want. It's likely that you'll get most if not all of your money back out of both and that can offset the cost of upgrading.

    Similarly, if you decided big negatives are not for you, you'll be able to recover your cost and go back to a format which works for you.

  6. #6

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    11x14 pro an cons?

    William here speaks with the voice of reason, which is something that my own entusiasm for ULF doesn't always allow... His suggestion of going first with 8x10 to test the contact printing waters and then move up is I think the best thing you can do... 8x10 allows for more choice of film also, which is something to consider (velvia in 8x10 is breathtaking...) and allows for some creative possibilities like using 8x10 polaroid and doing image transfers, that are not aviailable at larger sizes...

    That being said, you could even start by contact printing your 4x5 negs, which would help you familiarize yourself with the process and allow for some lower cost experimentation before you start shooting larger sheets of film. As William said, everything costs more when you move up, even printing. You can contact print several sheets (at least 6...) of 4x5 film with the same amount of paper (and sensitizing solution, if you're working with an alternative process...) that you use for printing a single sheet of 11x14...

    One way or the other, always stay centered on the most important thing : your images, and keep burning film, it's the only way to learn !

    Cheers,

    PJ

  7. #7
    Louie Powell's Avatar
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    11x14 pro an cons?

    I saw a show of portraints that Timothy Greenfield-Sanders had done in 11x14 at a gallery in NYC on Saturday. Many were contact prints, but some were enormous enlargements. Wow!

    But the economics and physical requirements are daunting.

  8. #8

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    11x14 pro an cons?

    I've made a lot of 8x10 contact prints and a lot of 8x10 enlargements from 4x5 negatives. I don't find the same consistent "knock your socks off" difference between them that some people claim. A good contact print is often easier to make than a good enlargement because the ability to manipulate (dodge, burn, flash, etc.) a contact print is limited (at least it was for me). I also think the special attributes of a contact print are best displayed with a scene that has a lot of subtle tonal differences and a lot of detail. And you need a well exposed and processed negative to bring out those attributes.

    The thing I liked about 8x10 wasn't so much the contact prints as it was viewing and composing with the larger ground glass. That would be an even greater pleasure with 11x14 I'd think. You seem to be well aware of the disadvantages already. The only one I can think of that you didn't mention is the reduced depth of field you'll get with the longer lenses you'll use if you get 11x14 lenses with an angle of view equivalent to what you're used to with 4x5 (recognizing that the aspect ratios of the two formats are different).

    If you're inclined to move to 11x14 as you seem to be I wouldn't creep up on it in increments (i.e. by trying 8x10 first). In my experience that just means you spend a lot of time, money, and effort assembling the smaller system, then more time, money, and effort selling it and getting what you really wanted in the first place. Serious amateur photography isn't a rational endeavor anyhow so go for 11x14 now. It's not like you'll die if it doesn't work out, the worst thing that will happen is you'll have to sell the stuff.
    Brian Ellis
    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
    a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

  9. #9
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    11x14 pro an cons?

    I thought 8x10" was a good place for me to start in LF, because I found it more intuitive to work with the big ground glass than with 4x5", and it let me build a lens kit that could easily let me try out other formats without having to start from nothing (some lenses were compact enough for 4x5" or 5x7" and others had coverage for 11x14"). So I think if you wanted to start experimenting with 8x10" it wouldn't be a waste of time on the road to 11x14".

    The jump to 11x14" adds an order of magnitude of difficulty. You need more darkroom space, a bigger light table to examine negs, film is harder to find, more equipment (cases, etc.) is going to have to be adapted or custom made, color is less of an option, Polaroid is not an option, small test prints are out, and even your wastebasket for the rejects will seem too small.

    That said, there's nothing like a big contact print, so if your motivation is strong--go for it, but if you don't plan to get an 8x10" camera, you might want to get a camera that has the option of an 8x10" back, because it's just a more versatile format.

  10. #10

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    11x14 pro an cons?

    I always found myself making enlargements to 11x14 as well. I really don't care for the 4x5/8x10 aspect ratio so I've settled on 2 1/4 square, 5x7, and 11x14 camera formats. (I also have an 8x20 that needs a bellows to become usable.)

    I've only used the 11x14 a couple times but the results are marvelous. I'm very much into contact printing and alternative processes so the 5x7 and 11x14 really fit that niche. With 4x5 you are still stuck into the enlargement frame of mind while larger formats give you a different orientation to the entire process of making prints.

    There are two things besides the physical dimensions and weight that I struggle with in the 11x14 format. The first is the limited depth of field that others have mentioned. The second is the fact that the ground glass screen can be difficult to view, especially with shorter lenses. You really need to back up quite a bit under a huge darkcloth to get it all in one view and moving around to see the corners with a wider lens is also a pain. But, the view is worth it.

    Ooops, there's a third thing. You need a lot of space to load the holders in the darkroom and loading the holder into the camera, especially with verticals, can be a challenge.

    But, in spite of these minor negative aspects the move to larger formats is well worth the extra trouble.

    I also just picked up an 8x10 reducing/revolving back for my 11x14 yesterday so I have the option of doing the other formats as well with the big camera. I'm not sure I'll use it for personal work, but that option is available.

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