Thanks. I like that story. I always tell students that hard work trumps genius and you are a great example of that.
Thanks. I like that story. I always tell students that hard work trumps genius and you are a great example of that.
Thanks,
Kirk
at age 73:
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep"
Thanks Kirk...now for chapter two, trying to make a living doing nothing but shooting big beautiful black and white film and making mesmerizing silver gel prints. I'll build it from the ground up just like the rest and if it does not work, it's no failure....but it's going to work...;-)Originally Posted by Kirk Gittings
yet,by who/what standard? is this an empirical measure?
So, is this now by your personal measure?
Most people have good things to say about their alma mater or place of work, especially if they have an active interested in said place's success because of some sense of loyalty or a financial interest, or any other reason, but in any case does not make then the best people to be judges or offer a balances point of view of things.
Though there is a rating which you clearly follow:
I used to talk about those lists which have the top 5 photo schools in the world (all in the US, which is similar to the "world championship" of various US only sports leagues), but after attending and teaching at 3 of those often mentioned schools, i feel that the only basis for those listings is reputation, which is in actuality as far from the reality as can be. IE - the chair of the photo dept at RISD has her MA in computer science.
Is the measure of success in photography a monetary value? If so it is better to ask how many of the 80K + MFA graduates per year in the US are ever able to pay back their student loans, with or with out skills/connections earned during their "education", and out of those how many are photo MFA graduates.
I can't speak to the scholastic and subsequent liability parts, only that success is different for everyone. I do know that I work about half the year for commercial clients by choice so I can have the freedom to explore this new venture the rest of the time. So in my estimation success is being able to buy back and not squander the most precious thing we have in our lives.....
Time.
Thanks for telling this story. This makes a lot of sense to me, and I learned some new things.
Will
That increases her reputation as far as I am concerned.
Student debt worries me. There might still be some professions where students have a reasonable chance of being able to pay off their debt easily, but for many areas that's not the case. And if you don't know what you want to do, as many students don't, taking regular college classes is a very expensive way to go about it.
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
KOH: Rather than attack what others post, could you post your own opinions on the value of college art or photography degrees? While many of us on this forum are not professionals, many of us have children, and can either encourage or discourage some of their education and career choices. As a concrete example, the most common response to the similar topic in APUG was for potential professional photographers to get a degree in business, and then try to launch their photography careers, rather than to pursue a degree in art or photography directly. And that advice was pushed most strongly by several professionals, be they photographers or photo lab and services owners.
You raise a number of questions which are very timely, and relate to much broader subjects than photography education. The "ranking of schools" is quite a hot topic these days, and in this ranking process, there are questions about how much the ability of the schools to place their graduates in careers in their chosen fields should count. You are probably aware that the government is considering a website ranking system which would strongly count post-graduate income and the ability to pay off college debts in the ranking. A number of educators argue that earning a living should not be the goal of a college education, but that exposing the students to the wide world (i.e. not only computer programming but also art, literature, psychology, etc.) is more important. So rather than question how others approach these questions, please give us your own answers.
As the proposed website stands (as I understand it from people I know in admin that are dealing with this), any schools that don't directly prepare you for a profession that you can find a job in, like liberal arts for example will not fare very well in the ranking system. Engineering, dentistry, physical therapy, teaching and such will fare well. To go to schools with a low ranking one will have a harder time getting government tuition support.
If this ranking bias is true I think it is unfortunate. They need to find some other means to rank schools. Many of the most creative and successful people I know, like my son, do something totally unrelated to what they got a degree in. Their university studies helped them learn how to learn, and methods of critical/analytical thinking that have served them well. My son has a degree in bio chemistry but now is managing partner of a multi-million dollar IT company that he started. Only a couple of his partners or employees have any kind of degrees related to computing or IT-most of them discovered IT after school, it became their passion and then their profession. The ranking system proposed would not take any of this into account.
Thanks,
Kirk
at age 73:
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep"
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