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Thread: monorail for field work

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    monorail for field work

    Hello all.

    I am about to purchase my first large format camera. When I started looking I went through both this forum and f32 reading many posts on the topic of cameras and beginners (I really liked the article here on a monorail in the field). I have tagged along with another lf photographer watch and trying out his camera. I have had the chance to use a few cameras and I rented one for a weekend. The experience has me ready to get into the format.

    However I need help with deciding on a camera. I have seen/used -Calument NX, Linhof Technika, Tachihara, Horseman FD?, and an old Graflex monorail (the one that weighs like 20 pounds). However there are several other models that I have read about about but never seen.

    The rental and time spent with another photographer did help me decide that I prefer metal to wood. It also made me realize I prefer the feel of a monorail to a field camera. I was able to work with lenses from 75-450 and that helped me learn which are best for me.

    I should probably mention that I am a location/field shooter too. My subjects are all outdoors-landscape(70%), nature (20%), and architecture(10%). I work out of my truck and usually within a couple hundred yards of it. On occasion I might hike 1-2 miles, but I am close to the vehicle for 90% of what I do. My lens choices will be a 90 and a 210 or 240. I might want to add a 75 or 65 in the future. I will not need anything longer than the 240 for the subjects that I work with.

    The models that look very interesting (but I have never seen) are the ;

    ArcaSwiss Discovery, Badger M-1, Linhof Karden E (or M).

    I considered a few others but pics or specs lowered my interest in them-Toyo CX, Calumet Cadet, Horseman LE.

    The camera that looks the best is the Discovery. Seems to be very modular, expandable, solid yet lightweight. Looks fairly easy to pack for a hike. The biggest downside is price. The Discovery with the 110 sized board setup runs about $1800.

    The Karden is cheaper (only $900) and looks solid. It is also much heavier and I am not sure if it is modular to the extent the Discovery is. Looks bulky.

    The Badger M-1 looks interesting. I cannot find any info on it other than the brief Ken Cravillion review. It does not appear modular at all. It looks reasonably solid and the price is amazing at $675. Is it too bulky? could you carry it for any kind of a hike?

    I am leaning toward the Discovery but I the $1100 savings of going with the Badger would buy a lens and a lot of film. The rub is I have never seen any of these three in person and reading about them only goes so far. I am also looking (or at least pricing them) as new since I seldom, if ever, see them on KEH, B+H, MPEX,or Adorama websites. I may look but do not have the faith to consider an auction site.

    Would I be wise to keep saving my pennies and getting the Discovery? Would one of the other ones be a pleasant suprise? Should I consider something else?

    Maybe I just need to fly to Chicago so I can goto Calumet and then drive upto Badger?

    Help.

  2. #2

    monorail for field work

    Have you thought about the Toyo 45A or AX or AII The only differences are that the AX does not have the $500.00 rotating back--Youu have to remove the back and turn it then put it back on. The AX is good and versatile--I use it to make protraits in the field and I've never had a worry about the simpler back design. Also, the backs are interchangeable and you could opt for the rotator later if you want. The "A" is just an older version of the AII. All these toyos give good flexibility in Lens selection.

    I also had an older Sinar F for a while--Not quite as fold-up protable as the Toyo, but not bad either--You can get one in excellent shape used on ebay for about $500.00 with a lens board and all. It's a great starter and much better than some old graphlex.

    The toyos also appear used on ebay quite alot.

    Both cameras are quick to set-up and have a multitude of accessories available--especially on the used market.

    Those are my suggestions

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    monorail for field work

    I recently purchased a Discovery. Keep in mind you will need a bag bellows if you want to work with a 90mm lens. Also, consider getting a different rail if you plan on hiking. The standard Discovery rail, though packable, is not as convenient as a folding rail would be. I think I spent over $2100 by the time I bought a lensboard, quickload holder, loupe and bag bellows. In all I think I spent $3200 with a 90mm nikkor f4.5.

    It's been 6 months and I think I made the right choice. The Discovery is very solid, sets up quickly and is easy to use. Hopefully some others will chime in on to help you with the other cameras.

  4. #4

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    monorail for field work

    Hello, Chip.
    Hard choice between a monorail or a flatbed/technical or wooden (=not technical ? ;-). A highly controversial issue. So let's be absolutely not neutral but totally biased toward your preferred choice of a monorail;-);-)
    It depends whether you intend to backpack with your camera or not.... But : I know some people who backpack with a Sinar. A Swiss friend of mine uses a 4"x5" Arca Swiss Discovery plus the 8"x10" extension, everything fits within a snowboarder's rucksack, with some tricks and with the tripod outside.
    Used Arca Swiss Discovery cameras can be found in Western Europe for about about 1000 euros, 1250 US$ by nowadays exchange rate. Used 4"x5" Sinar Norma cameras go for 700 euros here.

  5. #5

    Join Date
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    monorail for field work

    I started in LF with a Calumet 540; similar to current Cambos exc. no geared movements, no indexes. It does have center detents on most of the axes so you can always start in the right place. It takes all the Cambo accessories (bellows, etc.) It's for sale.

    http://home.comcast.net/~w7apd/temp/cal540net.htm

    I also have a 12" rail and a couple of recessed lensboards.

  6. #6
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
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    monorail for field work

    Obviously, there's a wide choice of monorails, Chip. Some of your comparisons, however, are at different points in the spectrum. The Toyo CX and Calumet Cadet are beginner, entry-level cameras, so comparing them to Arca-Swiss (even the Discovery model) or Linhof is somewhat like comparing a Chevy Cavalier to a Cadillac. Other models in the Toyo line (45C, 45G, 45GX or VX125), for example, would make a more apt comparison.

    Depending on the type of architectural work you plan to do, you may not need the additional range of movements afforded by a monorail. Personally, I found it cumbersome to use a conventional monorail (Toyo 45C) in the field, but that choice is really yours. Some models of the Arca-Swiss, for example, offer more modular rails, solving the problem of the relatively long rails of conventional monorails. But, all of that flexibility comes at a price - both for the camera and for accessories.

    Also, when thinking of a monorail for use within a couple of hundred yards of your vehicle, you might want to think about whether multiple trips to and fro will be necessary due to bulk, and whether you'll feel comfortable leaving gear unattended at one end or the other.

    Personally, I use a Toyo 45AX and a Tachihara 8x10 double-extension in the field. I have a 4x5 reducing back for the Tachihara, which lets me use a 450mm lens with the 4x5 when I need to. For most 4x5 work, however, the 45AX provides sufficient movements and is small, light, and convenient. For the few architectural shoots I do that require more movements, I drag out the Toyo 45C and a couple of different sized rails. But, most of the time, the only thing I miss with the 45AX is the ability to use a bag bellows with super-wide lenses.

  7. #7
    Octogenarian
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    monorail for field work

    Hi Chip,

    If you are planning on staying close to your truck, as you mention, then a monorail will do the job just fine. The Arca-Swiss Discovery is a good choice. However, consider getting a 150mm. lens to begin with. You can purchase a new Discovery kit, packaged with a 150, for well under the $1800 amount you mentioned (see: www.mpex.com). You can always add a shorter wide angle and a longer lens later. Plan for the additional expense of additional lensboards, film holders, focusing cloth, loupe, meter, filters, carrying case, etc. You will also need a sturdy tripod. Avoid the lower priced, entry level, cameras such as the Calumet Cadet, the Badger Graphic monorail, etc. However, a good choice for a new lower priced monorail would be the Toyo C, or CX model.

    If you are planning on backpack hiking, get a metal folding flatbed field camera and avoid the aggrevation of luging a monorail around (unless you can afford an Arca F-line, with a collapsable rail and a good backpack).

  8. #8
    Dave Karp
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    monorail for field work

    Chip,

    Make sure to call Badger before you head up there. I recall reading somewhere on this site that they are not set up with a traditional showroom. You will want to make sure that ther are ready for you.

    The Discovery is a very nice camera. I looked at one at B&H when I was considering my move to large format. The Kardan M is also very nice. Both are very well made, sturdy, and durable. I was considering them and leaning toward the Discovery when I came across a used Calumet 45NX at a good price and bought it instead. I think that I ended up with a 45NX, bag bellows, wide angle monorail, two flat lensboards, two recessed lensboards, and a new 210mm f/6.8 Caltar II-E lens (purchased on sale) for approximately the price of a new Discovery. I learned a lot about what I like and dislike about various camera features with that camera. Later, when a great deal on a used Cambo 45SF came along, I decided to stay in the system, rather than move to an Arca or other brand.

    You have an advantage by having used and rented some cameras. However, for your first camera, I would still recommend getting something inexpensive that you will be able to re-sell. That way you will not spend too much for a camera up front, leaving money for lenses. In addition, you will probably decide that you want something else, based on my experience and those of many others who post here. This approach let's you get your feet wet, gain some experience, and will likely lead to a more informed decision when you do upgrade. I learned that I prefer a monorail for many reasons, but would like a field camera for those times when I must travel lighter, or when I am hiking long distances. For now, I use the 45SF and an old Crown Graphic, and hope to replace the Graphic some day with a more adjustable field camera.

    The Calumet 45NX or similar Cambo cameras are easily available on the used market at very low prices. There seems to be a ready market for them used, so you would be able to send it on to a new owner when you are ready to move up. Or you could keep it as a backup camera. Either way, it is an option as a good camera availabe at low prices that affords an excellent entry into the large format world.

    Best of luck.

  9. #9

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    monorail for field work

    Consider a Gowland monorail, they easily accommodate shorter lenses. Available new at www.petergowland.com, and used at ePay. Downside is they are fussy, and hard to square up (best approach is to abandon squaring up!). Upside is they are absolutely rigid and weigh solutely nothing.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    6

    monorail for field work

    The Toyo flatbeds are not as much interest to me as I find folding cameras fussy to work with, especially with wide angle lenses.

    The Sinar looks nice but too pricey as do the Techinkardian and the Toyo VX. The Calumets seem really bulky. On the other end the Toho and Badger M2 seem too light and I do not want to have to change the bellows to change orientation. That leads me back to the Discovery or one of the others.

    You can spend more on other models in the Arca line, but the Discovery seems to have good cost-benefit ratio. Even with a setup like David has that is still several hundred cheaper than the F-line and is functionally very close to it.

    What I liked about the Discovery, Kardan, and Badger was they all seemed sturdy and solid but that you ought to be able to carry them a reasonable distance if needed. The Discovery seems the best of this lot but can the others do it close enough to save the money?

    I appreciate the comments. I want to buy "right" not the first thing that comes along, not a trial camera, but buy right and just once.

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