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Thread: 4x5 tranny scanning with Epson 3200

  1. #1

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    Oct 2003
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    4x5 tranny scanning with Epson 3200

    After trying to scan another 4x5, my Epson 3200 yielded an image with Newton's rings. So I tried flipping the tranny over the "wrong" way (emulsion side down) to keep the warped film off the glass. This solved the problem of creating rings. Then using Photoshop I flipped the image around the right way. The image looks just as good as when it is scanned the in the "correct" (emulsion side up) position.

    Has anyone else tried this?

    I'm not sure why Epson wants you to scan trannys with the emulsion side up anyway. Because of the effective "depth of field" of flat bed scanners, I don't believe the focus distance is a big concern like it is with film scanners. Is there something that I'm missing here?

    Cheero,

  2. #2
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    4x5 tranny scanning with Epson 3200

    My experience with film 4x5 film "sag" suggests to me that there is precious little depth of field in these scanners. See my thread "Canon 9950 am I nuts". I have since given up on the Canon because of streaks in the scan and have gone back to my Epson 4870. The Epson too benefits from side scanning to eliminate the sag.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  3. #3

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    4x5 tranny scanning with Epson 3200

    I have an Epson 3200, and I have tried it in various different ways: in the holder with emulsion down or up, and on the glass both ways. Various people have done careful tests and concluded that the Epson actually focuses a little over 1 mm above the glass, but apparently this can depend to some extent on the particular unit. However, there is substantial depth of field and it is very difficult to detect differences over a wide range, including directly on the glass. For 4 x 5, you are highly unlikely to notice any difference. You have to be doing 35 mm or smaller in order to see a difference.

    I think it is pretty clear why Epson tells you to put the emulsion side up. Their firmware and software are designed for scanning reflective originals. A moment's thought will convince you that for that purpose, it is necessary to reverse the raw reading to get an image with correct right to left orientation. But if you use the same system for film (illuminated by transmitted light), you have to have the image facing the glass, when viewed from below, with correct left to right orientation, just as you would a reflective original. That means the film has to have the shiny side down and the emulsion side up. When viewed from above, it will of course be reversed from left to right.

    There is no reason why Epson couldn't have written into the firmware/software the instruction to do something different when scanning film, but they didn't. There may be some other obscure optical reason why they felt having the emulsion side up made sense, but I doubt it. Film scanners which also scan using transmitted light always have the emulstion side down, as do enlargers, which suggests there can't be a good reason for having it up.

  4. #4
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
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    4x5 tranny scanning with Epson 3200

    I always scan with the emulsion side down and then flip in Photoshop. I've assumed that Epson wrote the instructions for the less technically-astute users, so they'd avoid all the "But, its backwards!" service calls. Considering the target buyer for the 3200, however, it seems a bit strange that they couldn't figure out how to describe the options.

    Most of the films I use have fairly thick bases, so I haven't had a big problem with sag - considering how well the Epson carrier holds the film. For thinner-based films, I'll often put a corner of the cotton glass-cleaning cloth I keep nearby below the carrier to support the middle of the film while closing the carrier. That seems to solve the problem for me.

    Next step is to try some of the Aztek mounting fluid that has been mentioned in other threads here.

  5. #5
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    4x5 tranny scanning with Epson 3200

    These scanners have real problems dealing with film curvature. I scan 60 to 80 6x9s a week and I have to pre-flatten the film because they can't deal with the inherent curve of the film. Try it on roll film. Do one fresh from the lab with the curve and one flattened in a book for a couple of days. The flattened one will give you a significantly sharper scan. These scanners have extremely little depth-of-field in my experience.

    What else would explain this?
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 1999
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    133

    4x5 tranny scanning with Epson 3200

    I don't know if this is scientifically optimal, but I've mounted many of my 645 exposures into cardboard holders. Wondering how best to scan them, I eyed the thikness of the holder and the thickness of the mounting plastic that comes with the Epson. They looked about the same. But the cardboard mounts reduce film sag. So I have been scanning right in the cardboard holder. I don't scan a huge amount, so maybe this isn't the best solution, but something to consider. I haven't seen any big difficulties with this so far.

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