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Thread: Do we still need Black and White FIlm???

  1. #21
    Tim Sandstrom
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    Re: Do we still need Black and White FIlm???

    Shoot TXP because you like it, same with TMY, HP5 or whatever. If you like Ektar go for it.

    But YES, we need black and white film, and frankly I imagine TRI-X will outlast Ektar,
    but I wish no ill upon any film or the users who love it.

    Asking "Do we still need Black and White Film???" -an already threatened species-
    just seems like you're just one more dude, hacking at the foundations instead of
    shoring it up, it's hyperbole and I agree with Karl.

  2. #22

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    Re: Do we still need Black and White FIlm???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Andrada View Post
    Do we still need Black and White FIlm???
    "We" includes you and at least one other person. I'll answer based on me being that someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Andrada View Post
    ...recently I've been using a lot of Ektar 100 and I find it quite impressive indeed. I've pretty much switched to it for 90% of my MF work, even if the end product is going to be B&W...
    You don't need it, but I do. Because Panalure is no longer available.

  3. #23

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    Re: Do we still need Black and White FIlm???

    @Tim & Karl

    Well, I'm pretty seriously impressed by the Ektar, even if I want to end up with a B&W print, particularly in the context of a hybrid process. It's the first thing I've seen that's got me wondering if us hybrid process folks could simplify our toolkits a bit. YMMV, etc. Calling honest folks Trolls or accusing people of "hacking at the foundations..." etc is impolite, uncalled for, and erroneous.

    If you disagree, just say so with a bit more class, like Sal did. And his comment about Panalure is right on - it's almost the same thing I was thinking of, ie deferring the transition from Color to B&W until later in the process when you have more control over the transformation itself.

    Disagreement is constructive. Rudeness isn't.

  4. #24

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    Re: Do we still need Black and White FIlm???

    I'm part of the 5x7 Canham co-op for Ektar as well. Personally, a box of 50 sheets costs nearly 4.5 times more to shoot then 50 Ilford sheets. I would just prefer to shoot B&W film for b&w intended shots.
    I have done B&W conversions on occasion with both Portra & Ektar images...I prefer the grain structure of Ektar better between the two.
    Reciprocity is pretty poor with Ektar for long exposures. Acros is certainly a better choice.

  5. #25

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    Re: Do we still need Black and White FIlm???

    This thread is nearly the definition of "trolling."
    Think about the title of your thread and the definition of trolling:

    "submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response"

    Wether or not your intent was to start an argument or not, the title of your thread is enough to raise a red flag.
    Something like "I think digital is great, do we really need film any more?" is about the same.

    You like Kodak Ektar. That's great. Starting a thread questioning the viability of black and white negative film as result is foolish.

  6. #26

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    Re: Do we still need Black and White FIlm???

    Good point re the reciprocity. And to be honest I really like Acros.

    Let's put it in a little more context. Hopefully before the end of the year I'll get to spend a couple of weeks in Japan. I'd like to take a LF camera and an MF camera with me. Based on my good experience with Ektar I'm thinking to carry 3 Grafmatics of Ektar with one or two holders of Acros or Tmax just in case. And for MF, probably the 645 with Ektar, period. Even knowing that most of what I shoot will end up as B&W I'd feel comfortable with it.

  7. #27

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    Re: Do we still need Black and White FIlm???

    @Karl

    No intention to start an argument - I really want to know what people think. Come to think of it I haven't seen many argumentative posts in this thread. In retrospect, maybe not the best choice of a thread title, but no way to change it now. But why do you find the idea that something (if not Ektar, maybe some other color film) might be good enough to replace B&W film so upsetting. If you think I'm nuts, that's fine, just say "I think you're nuts for the following three reasons".

    Do you have three (or even one or two) reasons? If so, let's hear them. I'm all ears.

    It's one thing to argue with the ideas that someone puts forth, it's something else to argue with the putter forth of the ideas. Heck if you have a better idea for a title, ask one of the mods to change it. Maybe something like" Is Ektar 100 good enough to replace B&W film for some applications when scanning even when the final result will be B&W?"

    I'll be in the Bay area in a couple of weeks. I'd be happy to get together to talk about my possibly nutty concept over a cup of coffee - on me!

  8. #28
    Daniel Stone's Avatar
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    Re: Do we still need Black and White FIlm???

    Jim,
    Life is too short to really give a hoot about what others think about a process that you enjoy and derive results from. You're not hurting anyone by using a hybrid process for your work. What works for you might not work for someone else, and vice versa, but who cares?

    Ektar 100 is a great film, and I've even made some b/w shots from original color photographs.

    Don't let "tradition" stand in your way. Tools and materials are made for using creatively, even if they sometimes get put into a different line of work than originally intended

    cheers,
    Dan

  9. #29
    Jim Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Do we still need Black and White FIlm???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Andrada View Post
    . . . But back to the main topic - the real world, like it or not, is in color. . . .
    Most people also see the real World in 3-D, and the tonal range is often greater than any print from film. Film interprets a subject, not presents it exactly as it is. Our eyes and mind reinterpret the image, either to visualize the subject somewhat as it actually was or to appreciate qualities in the subject as emphasized by the photographer. Sometimes B&W more than color film presents a subject in a manner more appropriate to the further processing by eyes and minds. Infrared film and Tech Pan processed for high contrast were two examples that. Reality is merely reality. Imagery can be more.

  10. #30

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    Re: Do we still need Black and White FIlm???

    The short answer to the original question, for me, is yes. The long answer is a homework assignment -- go to B&H Photo, search for sheet films from 4x5 to 8x10 that are IN STOCK, and observe the ratio of color film to B&W film.

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