Views of Georgia shot exclusively on 4x5" Velvia

[Zndrson]

Hey Guys. Great to have a forum here dedicated to Kickstarter. I'm working on a project that is essentially a survey of Georgia landscape and nature. I'm shooting it all on Velvia 100F and compiling the images in a book. Any attention is greatly appreciated!

Thanks for looking!

http://kck.st/1pURrQM

[Kirk Gittings]

A couple of questions and/or suggestions. This is a site with many accomplished and talented LF photographers. We see many proposals like this. Most fail but some have been very successful. I hope you don't mind some constructive suggestions?

You should show more actual work directly in the proposal. Why are you showing a black and white? You need to show a really stunning example of what you propose to do. To prove that you are capable of accomplishing the project. And you should state why you are the one to do this project.

Also I wonder about your stated costs. Where are you going to get professional scans done at this price: "the slides will need to be scanned professionally. This has an approximate cost of $400 for 80 or so slides."? $5 a piece for professional scans? Where? I do scanning for a couple of pro photographers who are friends and I charge $25 per scan. And I know my limitations. When I need a really first rate scan for myself or others I pay someone else (Lenny Eiger) over $100 per scan.

Good luck with this. Your financial request is really not too substantial so it may fly.

[Zndrson]

You should show more actual work directly in the proposal. Why are you showing a black and white? You need to show a really stunning example of what you propose to do. To prove that you are capable of accomplishing the project. And you should state why you are the one to do this project.

Hi Kirk, Thanks for the feedback!

I agree that more similar work would be good to show, and I do have this work, but the images are from other parts of the country like Colorado and Montana. I want all images in the Kickstarter page to be from Georgia. That being said, very soon (next week) I'll be renting an RV and doing some traveling around the state to get a head start on the project. I'll be shooting Velvia (expired, but still). Thus, with an update, I'll be showing very recent work shot with the correct film.

Also I wonder about your stated costs. Where are you going to get professional scans done at this price: "the slides will need to be scanned professionally. This has an approximate cost of $400 for 80 or so slides."? $5 a piece for professional scans? Where? I do scanning for a couple of pro photographers who are friends and I charge $25 per scan. And I know my limitations. When I need a really first rate scan for myself or others I pay someone else (Lenny Eiger) over $100 per scan.

I received a quote from a lab out west that charges $3.50/slide for a moderately sized file. Factoring in a slightly higher resolution, I factored in $5/scan. Worst case scenario involves buying an Epson V700 (which I plan to do eventually anyway) for $600 or so dollars and performing some wet scans myself. I intend this book to be 28x21cm, so extremely high resolution files are not necessary

A couple of questions and/or suggestions. This is a site with many accomplished and talented LF photographers. We see many proposals like this. Most fail but some have been very successful.

I've seen the work of other photographers on this forum, and I certainly do not hold myself in the same category. However, not attempting a project because other photographers are more experienced is silly. I'll be working on a smaller scale version of this project even if it does not get funded. The Kickstarter will fund the book and allow for more film to be purchased so that many images can be taken within a relatively small amount of time, thus, allowing for the book to be completed within a short amount of time.

Regardless of what happens, I'm eager to get outside and expose some 4x5 :-)

[koh303]

Zack,

Good luck with the project.
It sounds cool and we can only wish the best with this - but have only one point - why are you shooting slide?
As you will be scanning the film, you are much better off with negatives, as most scanners are not designed to scan slides (unless you are going with a drum scan, and even then it does not really matter), and you can get pretty much any color/contrast you like once the image is on the computer. What you cannot do is add detail where there is none, because of the very small envelope of performance and precise tolerance slide films have and prescription in exposure and processing that they require. The material is cheaper, better, easier to work with, and the chemistry is also cheaper.

You should have a look here at a recent discussion about printing from slides (even though you will be scanning): http://www.largeformatphotography.in...=1#post1159954

How will you be processing the films? I can only assume you have all the gear needed.

Good luck!

[Zndrson]

Zack,

Good luck with the project.
It sounds cool and we can only wish the best with this - but have only one point - why are you shooting slide?
As you will be scanning the film, you are much better off with negatives, as most scanners are not designed to scan slides (unless you are going with a drum scan, and even then it does not really matter), and you can get pretty much any color/contrast you like once the image is on the computer. What you cannot do is add detail where there is none, because of the very small envelope of performance and precise tolerance slide films have and prescription in exposure and processing that they require. The material is cheaper, better, easier to work with, and the chemistry is also cheaper.

You should have a look here at a recent discussion about printing from slides (even though you will be scanning): http://www.largeformatphotography.in...=1#post1159954

How will you be processing the films? I can only assume you have all the gear needed.

Good luck!

Thanks for the response!

You bring up a good point. I have no numbers or concrete reason for using slide film over negative film. The best way I can sum it up is that there is something supremely satisfying about gazing upon a direct positive. Its one of a kind. This is why I shoot a lot of Polaroid. It makes the photograph an object. Slide films and Polaroids have a quality about them that are hard if not impossible to achieve with digital/negative film. Once the film is exposed and processed, there's not another step to be had to achieve a satisfying image. That's it. You're holding a pure photograph in your hands. If you've been lazy in your exposure and development then you'll receive a poor result. If you've been diligent through all aspects of the image making process the reward is extraordinary.

Most of that awe is null after scanning and subtractive printing, but the high image quality and beautiful color rendition is still there for the most part.

I shoot negative film all the time and love processing BW, but for this project I wanted to branch out and shoot slides again.

Some will cringe at reading this, but I'll be using the taco method to develop the slides. I'm able to fit four 4x5 sheets in my tank at a time. I have a proper tank but I always get better, more even results with the taco method in the cylindrical tank. Plus it can be inverted. I'll be running some tests with this method in about a week. If I can get consistent results then that will be the answer. If consistent results can't be achieved I'll be on the lookout for another alternative. I'll be posting updates to the Kickstarter page with more info including successes and failures.

[koh303]

Thanks for the response!

You bring up a good point. I have no numbers or concrete reason for using slide film over negative film. The best way I can sum it up is that there is something supremely satisfying about gazing upon a direct positive. Its one of a kind. This is why I shoot a lot of Polaroid. It makes the photograph an object. Slide films and Polaroids have a quality about them that are hard if not impossible to achieve with digital/negative film. Once the film is exposed and processed, there's not another step to be had to achieve a satisfying image. That's it. You're holding a pure photograph in your hands. If you've been lazy in your exposure and development then you'll receive a poor result. If you've been diligent through all aspects of the image making process the reward is extraordinary.

Scanning slide film is extraordinarily harder then scanning negatives.

Getting proper exposure on slides is infinitely harder then on negative.

Processing slides with the very best of equipment, by the most experienced operators is by far more demanding then negative, and requires precise temp control, agitation, and timing (none of which, BTW, are possible with the taco method).

Most of that awe is null after scanning and subtractive printing, but the high image quality and beautiful color rendition is still there for the most part.

As you are by far more likely to have a better negative then a slide, that will scan better then a slide, i think you will find that for the most part, that awe of looking at a 4X5 slide is lost in the many black and white blotches which were once a dark puddle and bright clouds.

I shoot negative film all the time and love processing BW, but for this project I wanted to branch out and shoot slides again.

Some will cringe at reading this, but I'll be using the taco method to develop the slides.

It is a fine thing to want to branch out, but you cannot use the taco method and be "diligent through all aspects of the image making process" at the same time.

[Zndrson]

It is a fine thing to want to branch out, but you cannot use the taco method and be "diligent through all aspects of the image making process" at the same time.

I respect your position, and most likely you are 100% correct. This is why I'm giving the process several trial runs to see if it is a viable process. If not, then I will move on to other home developing options. Part of the fun of this project is experimenting to see what the most economical/stable methods are of bringing slides to life. I'm a believer in using what I have first, and then moving on to other options when the ones currently at my disposal are exhausted.

Developing slides using the taco method may indeed be a pipe dream. I'm not married to the idea, but I do want to make sure its unattainable before I completely rule it out.

I'll be able to make a decision within the next couple weeks.

[Greg Miller]

I respect your position, and most likely you are 100% correct. This is why I'm giving the process several trial runs to see if it is a viable process. If not, then I will move on to other home developing options. Part of the fun of this project is experimenting to see what the most economical/stable methods are of bringing slides to life. I'm a believer in using what I have first, and then moving on to other options when the ones currently at my disposal are exhausted.

Developing slides using the taco method may indeed be a pipe dream. I'm not married to the idea, but I do want to make sure its unattainable before I completely rule it out.

I'll be able to make a decision within the next couple weeks.

Seems like you need to work these details out before you try to raise money through Kickstarter. To effectively raise money, you should demonstrate that you have your process dialed in, and show many quality photos that you have created successfully, and of the type that would be used in the book. You should go back to Kirk's post #2 and look at paragraph #2 - you need to be able to directly address the items he has posed to you.

I would also encourage you to think closely about how many total images you need in order to produce a high quality book. I have one published book where I produced new images for the publisher (as opposed to using images I already had made), and am pretty far along in along in producing images for another book I have been commissioned to produce. In both cases, for every 10 images that I shoot, I select one to submit to my editors. And for every 10 that I submit to my editors, one makes it into the book. There's more to a book than just having a bunch of high quality images. The book needs to have a logical flow. The images from one page to the next need to flow well in terms of content, color palette, and mood. There needs to be consistency but also variety. If the book will be printed with an offset printer, you may find some images just to convert well to the CMYK color space.

[Zndrson]

I would also encourage you to think closely about how many total images you need in order to produce a high quality book. I have one published book where I produced new images for the publisher (as opposed to using images I already had made), and am pretty far along in along in producing images for another book I have been commissioned to produce. In both cases, for every 10 images that I shoot, I select one to submit to my editors. And for every 10 that I submit to my editors, one makes it into the book. There's more to a book than just having a bunch of high quality images. The book needs to have a logical flow. The images from one page to the next need to flow well in terms of content, color palette, and mood. There needs to be consistency but also variety. If the book will be printed with an offset printer, you may find some images just to convert well to the CMYK color space.

Hi Greg,

Thanks for the response. I'm producing a run of 40 books to be had as rewards, for friends and family, and offer for sale. In this case, I am my own editor. I do not intend to have these books shipped to stores across the nation or even east coast. This is very strictly a home grown project. The book is merely a physical goal to have at the end of the project.

Seems like you need to work these details out before you try to raise money through Kickstarter. To effectively raise money, you should demonstrate that you have your process dialed in, and show many quality photos that you have created successfully, and of the type that would be used in the book. You should go back to Kirk's post #2 and look at paragraph #2 - you need to be able to directly address the items he has posed to you.

In my response to Kirk I mentioned that I will be taking a trip beginning next Friday around the state in order to get a head start on the project and also serve as a test run in home developing the film. The images I make will be uploaded to Kickstarter as an update, and will cover the successes and failures experienced, as well as solutions.

[Greg Miller]

In my response to Kirk I mentioned that I will be taking a trip beginning next Friday around the state in order to get a head start on the project and also serve as a test run in home developing the film. The images I make will be uploaded to Kickstarter as an update, and will cover the successes and failures experienced, as well as solutions.

The problem that I see is that the Kickstarter campaign has already started , and the clock is ticking. By the time you take your trip, hopefully have awesome light, process the film, edit, and scan, you will have 10 days left. In that time, there could very well be people who visit your page, decide they don't see the detail that they need and move on. Any time you are asking for funding, it's best to have all the material you need to make the best case possible. Changing the campaign material part-way through would just turn me off as a potential investor. It basically says you are not ready, and you may alienate people who have already invested but don't like the nee material. If you are asking people to invest their hard earned money, they will want to have confidence that you can actually deliver. Not showing color images day one, and stating you need to learn how to develop are not confidence builders. And if you are asking people to fund this book (and for others to purchase a copy later), you have a responsibility to deliver a high quality book. You want to be really proud of this book and should also want to be able to use this book to help you get future assignments.

As an option, you may want to consider funding in phases. Get funding just for film and processing. When you have all the photos that you need to produce the book, use those to get funding for production.

And I think the most important question Kirk asked was "why you"? I wish you well, I really do, and I like the photos on your web site. But why you and not someone who specializes in color landscapes? Why not someone who has years of experience exposing and scanning color slides? Why not someone who already knows the state well enough they don't have to go exploring. Why not someone else who already as a track record of successfully producing a book?