Very dark ground glass, is this normal?

[Andrew Ross]

Please forgive me for the total newbie question, but I am using a 4x5 for the first time this week. A friend has loaned me a Sinar F for a few weeks and I'm very surprised by how dark the ground glass is. I'm actually wondering if there is something wrong, because even under the dark cloth or with the bino attachment, it's really hard to see well enough to compose properly. There is a lot of fall off toward the corners as well, so it's very hard to see the edges of the shot. The only way I can see the edges is to look at the ground glass from about a 45 degree angle. I'm using a 90/6.8 wide open in my apartment which has wall to wall south facing windows with quite a bit of light, even when it's grey and raining like today. It's better with the 210/5.6, but still quite dark.

I can't imagine trying to use this in some of the dimly lit interiors that I have photographed with my digital-SLR. Is this normal and something you just have to get used to?

Cheers,

Andrew

[Ralph Barker]

The short version is, "Yes, that's normal." ;-)

Although some GGs are brighter than others, and it's worse with wide-angle lenses, they all tend to be far darker than SLR users are accustomed to. Dim interiors and such usually require a supplemental focusing light of some sort.

[Gem Singer]

Hi Andrew,

Sounds normal to me. Your lenses have maximum aperatures of f6.8 and 5.6. Not really fast lenses for smaller formats, but average for LF. Aim them out the window and compose in the sunlight. See if you can detect a difference. A brightening screen for the ground glass may improve the situation, but even then, it probably will not be as bright as your digital SLR. It's something that you need to get used to when you use LF cameras with ground glass focusing screens. It just takes time and practice.

[Eric Woodbury]

I agree, sounds normal. You need a good darkcloth that doesn't let other light in, just what's on the GG. This will help alot.

[Andrew Ross]

Thanks for all your responses. I guess I've been spoiled with my Canon 2.8 glass. I expected the 4x5 to be darker, but I wasn't ready for this. The dark cloth does let some light in, but the bino viewer is attached via a bag bellows and is very dark. Even with that I'm still having a hard time.

Is it customary for interior photographers to bring lights just to help with focusing and composition?

[Brian Ellis]

Part of your problem is that you're using a wide angle lens. The light from the edges of a wide angle lens has a good bit longer distance to ttravel than light through the center area, which is why you see so much light fall off. Things would be better with a longer lens but probably still not great with a plain ground glass. There are a variety of solutions to the problem you desicribe, unfortunately all come with some drawbacks too. If you do a search here using a term like "Beattie" or "BosScreen" or "ground glass" or "bright screen" you'll find a whole lot of information about the pros and cons of all of them.

[Leonard Evens]

Andrew,

The bino viewer may make things darker. Try looking at the ground glass directly under the dark cloth.

I have a Maxwell screen. With a f/6.8 90 mm lens (and a f/4.5 75 mm lens), I can see interiors reasonably well with the kind of lighting you describe. With most interiors I would need some artificial lighting, but the same is true with my D70 DSLR using the kit lens f/3.3-4.5 18-70 mm lens. The Maxwell screen is so bright that in some cases in interiors I can use it without a dark cloth. (Outside, the ambient light would wash out the image without a dark cloth.)

[Michael Veit]

Andrew,

The first time I looked at the ground glass of my first LF camera my heart sank and I thought, "good god, what did I get into? This is never going to work for me!" Indeed, I ended up chucking the camera into the back of a closet where it sat for 6 months.

But it's absolutely amazing how adaptable people are, what they can get used to and what tricks they can learn to accommodate for less than perfect conditions. These days I shoot LF in lighting conditions which would make even SLR framing difficult and think nothing of it.

Don't lose heart and don't give up!

[Øyvind Dahle]

You might try to change the ground glass to a home made one, using the technics explained elsewhere, surch for "aluminum oxide " and ground glass on this site, and look into:


http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/category/11.html

Øyvind

[Andrew Ross]

"The first time I looked at the ground glass of my first LF camera my heart sank and I thought, "good god, what did I get into? This is never going to work for me!" Indeed, I ended up chucking the camera into the back of a closet where it sat for 6 months. "

Thanks Michael,

That's exactly what I was saying. I couldn't possibly imagine how I could ever use this for an interior shoot. I still can't, but I am going to try and keep at it. It's sunny today and I can see fine outside, but inside it's still a real challenge.

Cheers,

Andrew