Richard Avedon

[AtlantaTerry]

Mr. Avedon also shot 17,000 sheets (!!!!), over 100 on the "Bee Man" alone. I wish I can afford to use more than 2 sheets...

Yes, it makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong when I expose only two 4x5" sheets per portrait.

[Alan Gales]

Avedon will always be controversial. He made sure of that. It was integral to his marketing persona. But in hindsight some of his over-the-top tricks just seem
kitchy - like that bee man utterly unrelated to the theme of the project, or Natasha and the snake - really dated stunts typical of the era. He reminds me of Warhol. I don't think art would have skipped a beat if neither had ever existed. But others worship 60's genres.

I'm an Avedon and Warhol fan. How do ya feel about David Bailey?

[sperdynamite]

Of course he posed them! He even flew that bee guy in from a totally different state! In some cases, like his famous shot of a haggard Marilyn Monroe or downcast Duke and Duchess of Windsor, he deliberately wore down his posers to the point of sheer exhaustion during a long session and then caught them off guard. Wish more photographers like him were still around. All by themselves they could double the sales volume of sheet film and keep it in steady production. What would that idiotic bee shot by itself cost at today's rates? Lodging and logistics for assistants, plus the beekeepers flight and fee, then 100 sheets of processed 8x10 film,
maybe a $10,000 shot today? Wonder if he had cowpokes roll their own tobacco in sheet film just to burn more film in that manner?

I was born in 1984. What did sheet film cost in 1979 relative to other formats? I remember just a few years ago when Portra was $70-85 dollars a box. It's nearly DOUBLED in a few short years because of lack of interest (further distancing my own ability to even buy it, ugh!!!). But 1979 might as well have been a golden age for commercial film shooting. Does anybody older than I know about what Tri-X would have cost back then?

[sperdynamite]

Another thing... I remember seeing those insane print maps where the printer had circled all the dodge/burns. They are intense to say the least. As an experience and if I may say, half decent printer myself, I've always looked at those and though, whyyy? I can see running into issues at that print size, but I'd love to see what a print with half that amount of work would have looked like. I daresay I might not be able to tell the difference... Or at least if I can tell the difference then, say with absolute certainty that all that work was necessary.

[bob carnie]

Anyone who prints seriously would understand what an incredible project In The American West was and still I cannot think of any projects that come close .

Salgado's Genesis project is probably a modern day equivalent.

I know of a few projects not launched yet that may equal , but Avedon is great in my books.

[Drew Wiley]

... I mean, just how skilled is a duck hunter if he has to rent the entire Air Force to bomb a pond before he can get dinner?

[richardman]

OK, the figure 100+ sheets for the "Beeman" seems to be somewhat controversial. There is one thing that should be said: he destroyed ALL of the other negatives, except the ones published in the book.

No one said there are no good Beeman in the burnt piles. Rather than thinking "OMG, he needed 100+ sheets to get 2 good photos", an alternative is "OMG, he was not satisfied with 100+ good images. He wanted one great one."

Now I understand someone's "great" could be another person's meh, but the intensity of the work....

[Drew Wiley]

There are a couple of other hypothetical factors. One is that he was a neurotic nervous nut who just did things that way. Woody Allen behind a camera. That might be partially true, and he might have even egged that impression as part of his marketing persona. There was also a mindset in commercial photography at one time where being successful enough to waste a lot of money on fancy gear or piles of film was in actually in vogue. Sinar-Bron certainly succeeded in marketing to those types. A lot of studios got deeply in debt and never did pull out of the dive. Avedon, with all those redundant assistants ala film bucket-brigade might have been working the scenario like a model shoot. I don't know if it was his money being burnt or a grant. I allow myself an average of one sheet of 8x10 per week. If it ain't a keeper don't trip the shutter to begin with. That applies to portraits too. Otherwise, grab a Nikon.

[mdm]

If only you were as economical with your words.

[bob carnie]

Drew - keep thirsty my friend.