Returned goods for the For Sale section, some guidelines?

[sanking]

[QUOTE=Ginette;1141410]Their full refund include the original shipping paid?

[QUOTE]

The full refund does not include the original shipping cost paid by the buyer. Some store do charge a re-stocking fee.

Sandy

[BrianShaw]

... or retain the original shipping paid.

Shipping costs are not retained by a seller in any situation except when the shipping service was never procured. The shipping costs are paid by the seller to a shipping agent as part of the transaction initiated by the buyer.

As a frequent mail-order buyer I consider shipping costs to be a cost of convenience that I, ultimately, need to absorb if I want to do business via mail-order. I'm always happy when a seller will eat that cost in oether the original purchase or a return/refund but expecting that in ever transaction will only lead to disappointment.

[Ginette]

I talk about returned goods when the items were not in the condition advertised (not because you changed your mind about a lens or test it and doesn't like!)

In Ebay and Paypal buyer protection Policy the full purchase price is covered : "100% of your original purchase price and shipping fees. Does not include return shipping."
Is it what we wish as standard Policy when nothing was specified in the ads?

Yes this is a real case that happend to me. I received 2 lenses, don't even test theirs shutters. Based on the glass condition that was not, in my interpretation, as described, i carefully pack the lenses and sent back as asked by ExpressPost fully insured, I paid the shipping back. As the seller think that "my expectations of perfection is too high" he refund partially the original transaction, removing original shipping value from the refund.

I don't ask moderators intervention, I just ask what members think and wish to have as Standard Policy for the For Sale section.

Correct. If a buyer is concerned about the policy, clarify it (privately) before making the buy. Otherwise, realize that all life is a gamble, and buying used stuff moreso than most. Risk mitigation always costs, and some of that cost is missing out on the potential reward.

Putting the mods in the middle of sour transactions is a non-starter.

Rick "who has never needed public help to sort out a problem" Denney

In my case, I paid by Paypal gift (no protection). With high currency conversion in both ways, it cost me 192$ for 2 returned lenses. Pretty expensive learning process *

Rick "who has never needed public help to sort out a problem" Denney

In your case Rick, I think that no sellers here will never say you that "your expectation of perfection is too high"

General principle in life: Do the same way for others that what you wish that others do for you.

* Learning process ... If I'm interested to buy something from a member, I read all old posts and check the comments in Buyer-Seller Advisories forum.

[Kirk Gittings]

I don't ask moderators intervention, I just ask what members think and wish to have as Standard Policy for the For Sale section.

"Standard policy" for any section is ultimately determined by the moderators. This is a privately owned site. You are asking the moderators to intervene in all sales by establishing a policy that pokes its nose into a private transaction between two people.

[rdenney]

I just ask what members think and wish to have as Standard Policy for the For Sale section.

The only Standard Policy is that for-sale posts follow the guidelines. To wit:

Classifieds (for sale or wanted ads) should only be posted in the "For Sale/Wanted" sub-forum, which is open only to those who have been members for 30 days or more. Classified ads are limited to the personal photographic equipment, photography books, and prints of registered users. Posts by dealers are not allowed. The sales price must be clearly stated in the original post. Auctions are not permitted, nor are announcements, pointers or links to items for sale at other web sites or points of sale. They are prohibited and will be deleted without notice. Please prefix all post titles to indicate intent: "WTB", "FS" , "FT" (for trade), etc. Use of the "For Sale/Wanted" section is completely at your own risk. Readers of "For Sale" posts should refrain from intruding on the thread by making negative comments about the item or the price being requested. Doing so is rude, and thus in violation of general forum guidelines.

So...personal equipment, no dealers, price clearly stated, and FS or whatever in thread title. Those are the Standard Policies.

Everything else is negotiated between buyer and seller, in private and not on the forum.

Rick "making something a rule implies it will be enforced" Denney

[rdenney]

By the way, I moved this to the Feedback forum, where issues with how the forum is managed should be posted.

Rick "thank you" Denney

[ViewCameraNut]

You couldn't have said it any better!

I don't agree that the seller should pay shipping. For thousands of years....oh, ok, for a hundred or so, if you bought something used, then didn't want it, it was the onus of the buyer to return for a full refund. Even today, if I buy from most companies, from an antique shop, over the internet, the sales usually say "return in the same condition you got it in for a full refund."

The "Try before you buy" technique is getting ridiculous with antique cameras and lenses. It's become a "free inspection" period for picky, hard to please buyers. It's only happened to me once or twice in hundreds of sales, but I'm very careful to explain to buyers any flaws. But I've bought a lot of over optimistically described things, and usually keep them, and don't make a fuss.

The biggest mistake you can do is say "like new" or "shutter works fine" because when it doesn't (these are 50-150 year old items) the buyer will instantly want a full refund, with you paying for "their trouble" over a little dust or a slightly slow 2 second speed on a Volute shutter. Buyers have responsibilities too - of being realistic.

[IanG]

eBay eBay eBay eBay eBay. There are no "seven dirty words" on this forum. And, if there are and I just haven't noticed, eBay isn't one of them.

No, I don't. Defrauding PayPal of its fees, whether I like them or not, isn't something a person of integrity does.

Paypal gets it's cut either way, if you pay as a Gift you are paying the charges, there's no defrauding Paypal. You are however giving up any rights to involve Paypal if an item has issues or doesn't arrive.

Ian

[IanG]

One off situations have to be sorted out by the individuals involved.

However a few years ago a few of us on this Forum & APUG had issues with a seller. It wasn't fraudulent, rather just ineptitude items just not posted, in the end Moderators here and APUG put pressure on the seller and we were all refunded. Ironically Moderators had paid the postage for free items which hadn't arrived. The offender agrreed not to sell on either forum again.

Perhaps it's important to tell Moderators about unresolved issues with the Sales/Wanted section, I'm not suggesting they necessarily get involved in individual transactions rather that they should be aware of individuals who have been reported a few times.

Ian

[Vaughn]

I sold a 65mm lens, WA bag bellows and a recessed lensboard to a fellow here. He took the lens apart and found some mold that was not visible thru the lens. I immediately offered a full refund, including return shipping for all the items...payable when I received the items (and based on their condition being the same as when I sent them).

All I got back were nasty emails demanding that I send him the refund first, saying that I was trying to scam him, that I must be going to bars bragging how I suckered him, etc. etc. Very unpleasant. I ended up sending him a check to cover the cost of the lens just to be done with him...and told him never to contact me again.

I was selling the equipment for a friend whose photographer husband had just died of brain cancer...so I just ate the loss (I had already giver her the money from the sale.)

Perhaps just some suggested guidelines could be worked up for the For Sale section, but they should not be expected to be enforced in any way by the forum owner or moderators. For example, I think it is quite reasonable for the seller to wait until the returned items are received before paying the refund.