Grey card wrong?

[John Olsen]

Right now I'm using my Calumet Grey Card as a base for shooting some silver jewelry. It works great for that. As for metering, I'd rather go with palm-of-hand as Zone VI or moderately-aged asphalt as Zone V.

One of the earlier commentors noted that his two Pentax Spotmeters were a stop apart. I've got two and they agree perfectly with each other. For the last 7 years they have held a particular spot on my darkroom wall as 7 2/3 EV. I check every time I pack them up. Please don't dis my meters!

[Bruce Barlow]

I have always found blue sky to be a reliable Zone V. I point my meter straight up on a cloudless day, or in-between clouds.

[swmcl]

Thanks to all who contributed a helpful response to my ignorances especially Bill Burk. Confidence building is the key here. There are too many other things to worry about and now the 'K' factor too ! Off to read my palms !

I will trust the meters only and pretend the K factor doesnt exist. There is no way I'm getting meters calibrated. No way in the world.

To that, I will say that my photography took a giant leap forward a few years ago when I purchased my first flashmeter - the Sekonic L358. I generally go out of my way to get an incident reading - when I can - just to give me a 'reference' (my term) exposure - something in the ballpark. Reflected meter readings I do only when I absolutely have to - I find them OK only when I relate the reading to my incident 'reference'. I feel that insecure about reflected readings now !

Cheers

[Kirk Gittings]

Incident metering is significantly more accurate in all cases than using the ZS. Leigh

I've never used an incident meter but conceptually I've always had a doubt about using one in a common lighting situation I find myself in. When shooting landscape I often times find myself in lighting where my camera position is say in shade but the main subject in the distance is sunlit. What do you do with an incident meter in that situation?

[DG 3313]

My Pentax spot meter is good....but, only as good as the shutter accuracy of the lens I plan to use at the time and my development practices....not to mention my idea of where I should place a value. I like the Zone system with my palm at zone 6 as a starting point. If I remember to include filter factor and bellows draw........occasionally, I get it right.

I also use a Minolta auto meter IV F for my flash exposures....... that thing is amazing!!

[Bruce Barlow]

If you reel-y want to get good, each time you are going to use your meter, guess what the exposure will be first. Then meter, and figure out how to make your next guess better.

F'rinstance, I know that with my lens and shutter, Tri-X on a sunny day will be 1/60 at f22. Take it to the bank. On a day like that, between, oh, 10 and 3, all my exposures will be at that setting. On a cloudy day, I guess first, or if I'm in a special situation, I guess first. After a little practice, you'll see light much better, which is a useful thing.

Why wouldn't you want to have your meter calibrated? That said, "calibration" can amount to setting the ISO to where it gives you the "correct" exposure.

[Bill Burk]

Sorry, Bill.

Incident metering is significantly more accurate in all cases than using the ZS.
Of course this assumes that you haven't mucked with the meter's calibration.

The ZS relies on your perception of tonality, which is imperfect even in a highly experienced practitioner.

The perceived reflectance (tonality or "zone") of a surface varies due to many factors.

Human perception of reflectance can be influenced by color, angle of incident light, angle of surface to line of sight, and reflectance of adjacent areas.

It's easy to demonstrate this fact by simply spotmetering a gray card at different angles.
That's why the instructions tell you to position it quite specifically relative to incident and lens axis.

- Leigh

Incident metering has its strengths, among which are speed of work and accurate results. Nobody need ask more than that.

And I agree suppose you meter a random object, and plan it for a particular Zone, say Zone V... I would expect inaccuracies for all the reasons you stated.

But my "Zone System" readings usually agree with incident readings. Maybe it's because I have been practicing. I make multiple readings of the scene with the spotmeter (or reflective reading meter) and mentally "place" each reading in an intended Zone. Making multiple readings gives me the opportunity to favor some readings or throw out readings I think don't fit in. The reading I most often throw out is foliage. Palm of my hand is the most favored.

I get what Kirk Gittings says too, I was out not long ago with a meter (Sekonic TwinMate) that only has Incident and Averaging reflected light modes... But I was facing into the light and would have appreciated a spotmeter reading.

[Bill Burk]

If you reel-y want to get good, each time you are going to use your meter, guess what the exposure will be first. Then meter, and figure out how to make your next guess better.

F'rinstance, I know that with my lens and shutter, Tri-X on a sunny day will be 1/60 at f22. Take it to the bank. On a day like that, between, oh, 10 and 3, all my exposures will be at that setting. On a cloudy day, I guess first, or if I'm in a special situation, I guess first. After a little practice, you'll see light much better, which is a useful thing.

Why wouldn't you want to have your meter calibrated? That said, "calibration" can amount to setting the ISO to where it gives you the "correct" exposure.

Good advice to practice guessing in advance!

I think swmcl doesn't want to "calibrate" the meter in the sense that it's brand new and should have been calibrated correctly at the factory.

[swmcl]

Bruce, I was thinking calibration would be changing some mapping in an IC inside the unit. No way. Simply dialling in a different ASA is entirely reasonable!

Kirk, in cases where I can't get to the subject because it is a landscape in the distance I try to get there even so !! Then again, the sunlight in Australia is pretty even and direct. Not too much atmospheric haze or some such (usually) so climbing the sandhill or some such is usually pretty close. My chrome failures would be 5% compared to previously relying on in-camera meters ('failure' for me is a grossy unacceptable image based on an exposure error)

Shutter accuracies aside !

Fair number of variables what !

[Greg Miller]

I've never used an incident meter but conceptually I've always had a doubt about using one in a common lighting situation I find myself in. When shooting landscape I often times find myself in lighting where my camera position is say in shade but the main subject in the distance is sunlit. What do you do with an incident meter in that situation?

An incident meter isn't going to give you scene dynamic range either in that situation. And our film records reflected light from actual reflective objects, not incident light.

There's millions of photographers successfully using both kinds of meters. Photographers just need to pick a metering type, and master it, just like all the other things we have to master in photography.