Film prices (Kodak TMY in particular)

[StoneNYC]

I was considering specializing in TMY-2 for my night work and gravitating away from ACROS100 as the price was better and similar in reciprocity for 20+ minute exposures etc, not he same but similar enough. Even if I enjoy the spectral response of Acros100, if I could use TMY-2 for night shots I could also use TMY-2 for normal shots and essentially use it for everything, but I have to be practical too, and night shots aren't that often, so, as Roger is doing, I've decided on HP5+ which is also amazing and flexible, and "cheap" in comparison, I just hope it stays that way...

[k_redder]

Kodak just priced themselves out of my film freezer. I could afford to continue shooting TMY-2 if I wanted to given how little I get to shoot, but given the price difference, I no longer want to. My next order will be for HP5+. Another film to calibrate but oh well - easy enough and support those who support you.

This is where I find myself too. I don't shoot that much either, so the extra money isn't the end of the world, but for me this is a hobby (albeit a very serious one) and I don't have an endless amount of money to spend on materials. As of today, 100 sheets of FP4 will cost $125 and 100 sheets of TMY will cost $220 (and I suspect that going even higher, see original post). That $95 could buy me a box of paper, or maybe a whole years worth of chemistry. It is a meaningful amount of money to me and my particular circumstances. So I'm also going to take this opportunity to jump ship and switch to Ilford film. Also, and I don't have any particular evidence to support this but, if I were a betting man I'd put my money on Ilford to be be the one still standing when Kodak decides to give up the ghost. So there's that consideration.
To all of the other responses, I'm guessing that we all know that analog photography was never cheap, I understand the concepts of supply and demand, inflation and such (and, no, my salary has decidedly NOT kept pace with the price of film, thank you Mr. President). I accept that prices will creep ever upwards, I was just wondering if there was some particular event causing prices to go up so much in such a short span of time. That, I suppose, will remain a mystery.

[StoneNYC]

This is where I find myself too. I don't shoot that much either, so the extra money isn't the end of the world, but for me this is a hobby (albeit a very serious one) and I don't have an endless amount of money to spend on materials. As of today, 100 sheets of FP4 will cost $125 and 100 sheets of TMY will cost $220 (and I suspect that going even higher, see original post). That $95 could buy me a box of paper, or maybe a whole years worth of chemistry. It is a meaningful amount of money to me and my particular circumstances. So I'm also going to take this opportunity to jump ship and switch to Ilford film. Also, and I don't have any particular evidence to support this but, if I were a betting man I'd put my money on Ilford to be be the one still standing when Kodak decides to give up the ghost. So there's that consideration.
To all of the other responses, I'm guessing that we all know that analog photography was never cheap, I understand the concepts of supply and demand, inflation and such (and, no, my salary has decidedly NOT kept pace with the price of film, thank you Mr. President). I accept that prices will creep ever upwards, I was just wondering if there was some particular event causing prices to go up so much in such a short span of time. That, I suppose, will remain a mystery.

I'm guessing Kodak-Alaris sat down and did the math finally... Just as Fuji has...

I'm willing to bet, that Ilford has figured out that by keeping their prices where they are, many many many of the previous Kodak users would switch, given the price hikes, and that the offset of the amount of people that are switching is helping to keep the price down because their numbers of production /purchases are actually increasing... At some point this will level off, at which time the Ilford prices will probably go up a little bit, but being that the purchases are still going to be at a higher rate, the price comparatively to Kodak would be still better.

I would also bet, that if Kodak can hold out long enough, they will be able to soak up all of the Fuji film shooters when Fuji stops producing film, the fact that the Fuji users are used to paying higher prices for film would mean that they wouldn't mind paying higher prices for Kodak as a substitute. And it would also be more than likely to purchase TMY-2 at the higher price because of it's spectacular reciprocity failure rate, or lack thereof as a substitute for Acros100.

So there is still hope for Kodak if they can hold out long enough to take the fall off from Fuji.

Only time will tell, but in reality it seems sadly that Fuji will probably cease production of film way efore Kodak does despite all of these seemingly gloomy price hikes.

But in the meantime Ilford reap the benefits of Kodak's price hikes...

These are all just my opinions based on observation and understanding of patterns of behavior, so it's just an opinion as my signature says I could be wrong...

[jp]

I've got about a 4 year hoard of tmy2 in the sizes I use. So if it goes up 15% a year, I'm ahead about 40% if the film is still available and I'm in a position or inclination to keep buying it. 15% a year is better than I'd get in most investments these days. I'll replenish if it goes on sale rather than be at the mercy of any market. Ilford is good stuff too. I use both.

[Roger Cole]

I've got about a 4 year hoard of tmy2 in the sizes I use. So if it goes up 15% a year, I'm ahead about 40% if the film is still available and I'm in a position or inclination to keep buying it. 15% a year is better than I'd get in most investments these days. I'll replenish if it goes on sale rather than be at the mercy of any market. Ilford is good stuff too. I use both.

And I have an unopened box of 4x5, I forget the date but I've had it probably a bit over a year as I haven't used up the last box as quickly as I expected, refrigerated since purchase, that I'm now thinking of selling. If I'm switching to HP5+ anyway I could probably get enough for the TMY-2 to buy some HP5+ and just get started. Well, sort of, since it's a 50 sheet box and Ilford is sold in 25 and 100 sheet boxes, but you get the idea.

Interestingly enough, 120 film still seems to be priced close enough to Ilford as to make no difference so I'll probably stay with TX for my 400 MF film (and I switched to FP4+ for medium speed when Plus-X went away.)

[Kodachrome25]

I've got about a 4 year hoard of tmy2 in the sizes I use. So if it goes up 15% a year, I'm ahead about 40% if the film is still available and I'm in a position or inclination to keep buying it. 15% a year is better than I'd get in most investments these days. I'll replenish if it goes on sale rather than be at the mercy of any market. Ilford is good stuff too. I use both.

+1, if I ordered 20 boxes at the current price, I will still be below $95 a box for an average unit cost due to what I have in my freezer, not a big deal for what is about the best black and white film ever made. And to all the others on here that think a total ship jump to Ilford is going to insulate them from paying a lot more for film in the future, you are dreaming and don't have a very reasonable outlook on business.

Is it really that much more fun to come up with anti-Kodak conspiracy theories than go out and hone your skills as a photo enthusiast? It sure seems that way...people on here love to bitch and complain, I applaud Kodak for doing what they have to in order to keep making it, I'm sure going to keep buying it.

[Roger Cole]

Oh ptui. I don't think it's going to "insulate me from paying a lot more from film in the future" but I do think it will have me paying a lot less for film NOW than otherwise. Bottom line is that, for my work, I really won't be able to tell the difference in the final print between HP5+ and TMY-2 so why the hell should I pay nearly twice as much when I don't have to? THAT is the bottom line.

No conspiracy theories here, just hard nosed economic realism. I can get a product that's as good for the vast majority of my work* for a lot less money so why wouoldn't or shouldn't I?

*The exception being long low light exposures of which...well come to think of it I've never done ANY in LF, just MF - I've done a few seconds in LF but at that range HP5+ will still do nicely.

[Kodachrome25]

Interesting, I think that the grain and sharpness on TMY is even better than Delta 100 let alone HP5, I guess it all depends on what you are looking for, I often print at 16x20 and I see a difference there. I'm probably set for 5 years for TMY in 4x5 at this rate though, I seem to go through it at a ratio of 1:3 to TMX in 4x5. 120 and 35mm is another story, pretty much my standard film.

[Roger Cole]

Oh the grain is better. I can't see the grain from HP5 at a 4x enlargement / 16x20 from 4x5. If you can, well it might make a difference. Grain is just something that doesn't matter to me in 4x5 (within reason, I'm sure if they made Delta 3200 in 4x5 I might see it when shot at 3200 or so, or maybe if I pushed HP5+ to 1600 or whatever.)

If one routinely prints larger than 20x24 then it would make a difference. I'm not set up to print larger than 16x20.

[Roger Hesketh]

It is Ilford who I am upset with. What I do not understand is why Ilford film in the US is very nearly half the price that it is in the UK.

25 sheets of FP4+ 4x5 at B&H New York $32.95. At $1.67 to the pound that is £19.70.

25 sheets of FP4+ 4x5 at Ag Photographic in Birmingham is £38.49 This seems to be typical though I do note Morris Photographic Centre has it at £32.95. Which is the best price I have found in the UK. At Calumet the price is £41 and that is plus Vat in that case. Alright we do have VAT at 20 % which you do not have but even still that does not even come close to explaining the price differential.

I am forced to conclude that Ilford are taking the p*** and ripping off UK customers.