Absolute Newbie requiring some very basic help with B&W development

[unityofsaints]

Hi,

First post and first time shooting 4x5 (Sinar F1). I've just made my first couple of attempts at developing and it's gone horribly wrong

I've never developed film before and am coming from a DSLR.

Basically, I attempted to develop four sheets of expired Ilford Delta 400 and I ended up with nothing, thought the film was screwed and then shot a brand new sheet of FP4 and got the same result. The 4 Delta 400 shots were basically bracketed by the way, so if I'm significantly off exposure-wise at any point in the development process there's a good chance I would have gotten something back anyway.

By nothing, I mean absolutely nothing! I ended up with a clear, pinkish sheet of plasticky stuff. Not a trace of anything left on it.

What's the most likely source of my error? I expected my first attempts to be out of focus, massively under/overdeveloped, scratched etc. but I wasn't prepared for this. Some more info:

1. The film came from two different holders so I don't think they're leaky - they look in good condition and anyway, if there's a leak, only part of the film would be screwed, right?
2. I've checked the bellows/shutter/back for light leaks and they seem ok. I used this Sinar "automatic shutter closing mechanism when film back is inserted" (very technical term, I know ) each of the times and also checked the little red pin visually before taking out the darkslide.
3. My metering mightn't be perfect as I'm using a combination of a digital P+S and a light meter app on my phone but surely I can't be this far off? I mean even at 4-5 stops off you'd still see something on the film, right?

I was very careful about the darkness of the room I was in. I don't think that was the source of the issues.

I kept my development process simple:
1. Tetenal Ultrafin T-Plus developer, the right amount of time using the manufacturer's tables.
2. Stop bath made up of 1% acetic acid solution in water. Minimum of 3 mins.
3. Ilford Rapid Fixer mixed at 1+4. Minimum of 3 mins.
4. Obviously more steps come after this but I switched on the light at this point and had nothing so stopped here.

Any suggestions? I really need some words of advice in this matter. I've already wasted a lot of film and chemicals but am prepared to give it another go in a heartbeat with fresh batches of everything if I get some insightful replies.

Thanks in advance!

[djdister]

The film received no exposure at all. So your concerns about leaky film holders, leaky bellows and accidental exposure are all in the wrong direction. If you had those problems, your film would be solid black, not clear. Assuming your chemicals were mixed properly and used in the right sequence, then you did not expose the film at all. Something in your exposure workflow was not working - shutter did not open at all, dark slide was not pulled for exposure, or etc. Shooting 4x5 film from using a DSLR is a big leap - and while reading the books is good, pure book learning does not adequately prepare one for the mechanical process of shooting large format. Polaroid was good for this - at least you knew you were recording an image within a minute or two. Buddy up with someone who is experienced, and/or re-read the steps of using the camera for exposing film. Good luck!

[MIke Sherck]

Light leaks, either from the holder or the camera back or bellows, would leave dark patches or streaks on the film after developing. If the film is clear, light leaks are not your problem.

Clear film means that no light hit it. Even gross underexposure would leave a faint image after processing. It's unlikely that your metering is so far off that it would leave the film clear. Possible, yes, but unlikely.

Review your picture taking process. You compose on the ground glass, then close the shutter. Fire the shutter a couple of times, any aperture and shutter speed. Looking at the ground glass under the focusing cloth when firing the shutter, you ought to be able to see a flash of light when the shutter fires. If not, open aperture and slow shutter speed and fire again. Still can't see anything? Broken shutter or solid obstruction inside the bellows -- it ought to be a great dark empty space in there. Measure/calculate exposure and set aperture and shutter speed, then trip the shutter a couple of times. Look into the lens; you ought to be able to see the shutter open and close. If not, there's your problem. Set shutter and insert film holder. Remove dark slide. Fire shutter, replace dark slide.

You ought to get some sort of image; if not either the shutter isn't opening or you've inserted the film backwards in the film holder. When loading film into the holder, I hold the empty film holder in my left hand, the end where the film will be inserted facing to the right and the empty side of the holder, where I'm going to insert the film, facing upwards. The film is in my right hand and the notch code is at the bottom of the right edge of the film. In this position the film's emulsion side is facing upwards and when I slide it into the film holder it will be facing outwards, toward the dark slide.

|------------|
|.................|
|.................| <== horrible ASCII drawing of a sheet of film
|.................|
|.................< <== Notch code
|-------------

I hope that makes sense and helps!

Mike

[unityofsaints]

The film received no exposure at all.

Interesting - I loaded the film like shown here: http://www.butzi.net/articles/filmload.htm, with the notches at the bottom right of the film holder. Also, wouldn't I still see something if the film was the wrong way around? I pulled the darkslide and I know my shutter works - I mean I've test-fired it, know the red pin comes up when it opens etc.

Large format is near extinct where I live - buddying up would be great but is not (yet) practical for me.

[djdister]

If you loaded the film as shown, then yes, it was loaded correctly. You should have felt the notches in the upper right corner with your finger as you inserted it into the holder (which is upside down).


I like Mike's suggestion of firing the shutter a time or two without a holder in and observe the flash of light on the ground glass. And make sure you pull the dark slide all the way out of the holder to expose the film. Then flip the dark slide around and reinsert after exposing the film.

If those don't do it, re-examine your chemicals again. Clear film could happen if you ran it through the Fixer first...

[Lenny Eiger]

Just to clarify what others have said... it can only be 1 of 2 things. Either you didn't pull the dark slide, or the shutter didn't open.

On second thought, I suppose the shutter could have opened an exposure so far away, like a 8,000 of a sec when the exposure should be in the 30 second range. That might no even do it...

OK, a third possibility is that someone gave you a box of film that was already developed, and had nothing on it.

A fourth, what Dan said, you put things in the fixer first...

Can't think of anything else. First two are most likely...



Lenny

[Mark Woods]

If you put the film with the notches on the lower right had side, you put the film in with the back facing the lens. Look at the photo that Dan posted. If you notice, the notches are in the upper right of the film. The notches could be at the lower left.

[unityofsaints]

Well, my first successful attempt is just chilling in the post-fixer bath! Thanks for the suggestions, I actually did mix up developer and fixer... it's the first time I'm handling trays of liquid in the dark and they got mixed up somewhere along the way, honest mistake...

Thanks everyone for the helpful suggestions! In case anyone is wondering, I don't see anything obvious wrong with the negative - that seems to have been my only big problem in the process

[Darin Boville]

Just to underline Lenny's post, check three things. Shutter, darkslide, fix. It's one of those.

1) Shutter. Take the lens board off with the lens attached. Set the lens and cock the shutter. Look through the lens and fire it, with a bright area behind the lens so you can see any light that comes through the lens. Is it firing--do you see a flash of light when it fires?

2) Darkslide. Since this is your first time here's an error than can be easily made--and it comes in two parts. A) Are you really sure the darkslide was out when you fired the camera? B) Are you really sure you pulled out the correct darkslide--there are two. Did you pull out the one facing the interior of the camera and not the one facing the groundglass? (Edit: Duh, that would fog the film...)

3) Fix. The fix goes after the developer and stop bath. It dissolves away all the undeveloped silver in the negative. So it you put it first, *all* of the silver is undeveloped and it will *all* dissolve away leaving nothing but clear film. When you add developer later, there is nothing left to develop. Developer goes before fix. (And while we are here--did you have any trouble mixing the developer? We want to make sure it is good.)

I'm guessing you fixed first.

--Darin

[Darin Boville]

Looks like we cross posted--best of luck and don't be afraid to ask questions along the way.

--Darin