4 x 5 film holders ABCs

[NancyP]

I am trying to figure out what I will need for 4 x 5 LF work, and today I want to learn about 2-sheet film holders - talk about unglamorous! I figure that I can start accumulating the parts needed, and you can't get any more basic than film holders. You can do without a lens (pinhole), but you can't do without a film holder if you plan to shoot standard sheet film.

1. What brands are good? (good defined as: keeps the sheet film sufficiently flat, dark protection ok, doesn't scratch film, not flimsy)
2. Should one buy new or used? (I might add, ARE there any new film holders?)
3. How to tell if a used film holder is damaged? (not light proof, has dirt inside that scratches). There's a ton of used holders on eBay.
4. Do all 4 x 5 2-sheet film holders fit all view cameras (folders or monorails)?

[Karl A]

Here are some new ones:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/24500-...lder-Twin-Pack

They should be good enough for any application. Toyo are also available new too, and are a bit more expensive.

If you buy used, you will see a lot of Fidelity and Lisco Regal, which are both essentially the same. In that case, try to get them in as clean condition as possible. If they look beat up, there might be issues with light leaks etc. Look at the dark slide for starters, they need to close completely flush. If they look very dirty, I would be sceptical of buying them, personally. The advantage of used is the prices will be a lot lower.

Any brand should fit any modern view camera, the dimensions are standard.

[Lffbug]

I am trying to figure out what I will need for 4 x 5 LF work, and today I want to learn about 2-sheet film holders - talk about unglamorous! I figure that I can start accumulating the parts needed, and you can't get any more basic than film holders. You can do without a lens (pinhole), but you can't do without a film holder if you plan to shoot standard sheet film.

1. What brands are good? (good defined as: keeps the sheet film sufficiently flat, dark protection ok, doesn't scratch film, not flimsy)
2. Should one buy new or used? (I might add, ARE there any new film holders?)
3. How to tell if a used film holder is damaged? (not light proof, has dirt inside that scratches). There's a ton of used holders on eBay.
4. Do all 4 x 5 2-sheet film holders fit all view cameras (folders or monorails)?

Here are my thoughts and opinions on the matter. Others are more qualified than me to answer.

1. I've used several like Lisco, Fidelity, Riteway, and some others, both wood and plastic. Any of them can be quite alright, if they're in good enough condition.
2. I guess it depends on their situation. I would probably buy used and put any savings toward a lens, if you don't have one yet... [reading (perhaps incorrectly) between the lines]
3. Dirt and grime can be cleaned. If they're not broken, have the correct dark slides, and the hinge tape is okay, that's a good start on being light tight. Maybe there are no guarantees to be had here. IMO, I think it's best to store the film holders in dark locations, just in case.
4. All? Not certain; there are probably some odd ball exceptions out there. Most? Yes, I would think so.

[AtlantaTerry]

Be careful, I once bought a two-pack of new-in-box 4x5 sheet film holders from an eBay seller in Los Angeles. I really believe they are Chinese knock-offs because they have several problems:

1. they are a tiny bit too large inside so film does not want to stay under the little tracks.

2. they are constructed so loosely that the two halves of the holder can flex a bit then the film can shift sideways and get pinched which ends up with the image being crooked when developed.

3. there are NO ridges across the 4" dimensions. Those ridges need to be there for a reason: they act as a bit of a light trap but more importantly they serve to position the film holder in the correct place and they keep the film holder from pulling out along with the dark slide.

These are the only film holders that I own out of about 100 that are riveted together. So if you EVER see an ad for 4x5 sheet film holders that shows rivets RUN!

By the time I discovered these problems it was too late to get a refund. I figure I can fix problem #2 by removing the rivets, using epoxy glue to affix the halves then rivet them back together.

›

I buy used 4x5" sheet film holders from eBay sellers for about US $5 to $8. Often they need cleaning but that's OK. One thing I learned is to not use pre-packaged 1x1" alcohol squares to clean the matte black 4x5" area because sometimes that matte black coating comes off. Now I use wipes that are designed for LCD displays.

IMHO do not buy wood film holders because if they were stored improperly they can be warped. Plastic ones do not have that problem.

What you will read here is that some holders were badly made so your film is in the wrong image plane. I am no expert in this area so would like to know how to measure the holders.

If the tape on the end flap is worn out or damaged you can replace it with black book binding tape.

The final problem you will run into with used holders is cracked dark slides. I'm not sure if there is a good way to repair the crack because the dark slides are thin yet need to be flexible.

Tip: once you have film holders that are "keepers" number them so when you are creating photos you can keep track of which side has what exposed image. I use a Brother TZ label printer.

Some people like to notch the end flap with a small file. They develop a coding system so the notch codes match the holder side number. This notch will show up on the film after developing. That way if over time you notice a problem with the same holder you can stop using it.

[Tim Meisburger]

Ya. I never worried about it. Just bought used ones on ebay from reputable sellers, and all mine are fine. (Some are old and some are newer)

[Liquid Artist]

I think that I have around 30 mixed brands I bought used and none have any noticeable light leaks.
I did want to buy some new Toyo's however I have read that they stink and my nose is very sensitive.

My research has taught me that Toyo does make the most consistent film holders, so if you find some oldies that don't stink or can put with the smell they may be worth the investment.

[Heroique]

Should one buy new or used?

When it's holders, maybe a poll would show a close race between "used is okay" vs. "always buy new."

From the threads I've read, I bet "used is okay" would win at the tape.

But count me in the "always buy new" category – I've learned my lesson.

[Doremus Scudder]

When it's holders, maybe a poll would show a close race between "used is okay" vs. "always buy new."

From the threads I've read, I bet "used is okay" would win at the tape.

But count me in the "always buy new" category – I've learned my lesson.

I'm in exactly the opposite category as Heroique here: I would never buy new. There are so many good used holders out there for so much less that it is more economical to simply buy a bunch of used ones, clean them up, test them and get rid of the ones that leak.

As for cleaning up used holders: don't be afraid to get them wet, especially the plastic ones. Soaking them in some mild detergent and warm water and then rinsing in running water (through the light trap too, to get any crud out) seems to restore 90% of them to great working order. Make sure to let them dry thoroughly.

Of course, if there are stickers or other remnants of adhesive, etc. on them, you need to clean that off carefully. I use everything from erasers to mild solvents (and Goo-Gone) to acetone on a cotton swab. This latter is good for getting rid of ink markings in the white areas of some holders.

Don't use strong solvents on the flat black septum inside the holder. If there is bare metal showing on the septums you can touch up small defects with a Sharpie or paint the whole inside of the holder with flat black spray paint (I use Rustoleum).

Wipe down the holders and vacuum them clean. Once your holders are clean, examine the light traps with a strong flashlight from inside and out. If you have any doubts, test them: load them with a piece of 4x5" photo paper, insert them into the camera back, making sure they seat properly, make sure the lens is closed, pull the darkslide and expose the light trap to bright light. The sun is best, but a flashlight will work too. Develop the paper and see if there are any light leaks. If not, you are good to go. If so, you may be able to rejuvenate the light trap by washing again.

Keep in mind that even the best light traps sometimes leak a little light. Most users of film holders try to keep the light trap area shaded or covered when the dark slide is pulled. I like to keep the dark cloth over the back of the camera whenever possible. When not, I shade the light trap area with the pulled dark slide or cover the end of the filmholder with a small black cardboard cover that I cobbled together out of the inside of old sheet film boxes.

As for brands: any of them are fine with the exception of the poorly-made Chinese ones mentioned above (I've heard about them before, but never seen one) as long as they are in good enough condition. I have everything from newer Lisco, Fideleity and Riteway holders to older wooden Graflex holders and they all work fine. For some reason, though, I really like the older wooden holders I have... Maybe just my aversion to plastic rearing its head.

Best,

Doremus

[John Kasaian]

For used, I think the old style plastic Riteways are a safe bet. Always check used holders with photo paper as others here have said.

[Ari]

Save yourself a lot of trouble and misery, buy new or used Toyo holders.

There is nothing worse than having a film holder that is out of register with your GG, or bent, or sloppily constructed.

Buying other brands, in my experience, are akin to playing roulette.

If you buy Toyos, you will buy them once.