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Thread: I need advice to buy 5x4 for interiors & architecture Im changing from using medium format

  1. #1

    I need advice to buy 5x4 for interiors & architecture Im changing from using medium format

    I have spent weeks baffling about what to do

    I have been using a medium format camera system a Bronica SQAI 6x6 to shoot interiors.Mainly homes. My work has appeared in magazines like House & Garden and Dwell. Ive used my camera to its limits.Im a freelancer and mainly my work is self financed which means laying out film costs and scanning costs which i try to keep to a minimum. The first issue I have with 5x4 is the film is expensive and I thought the only way to finance projects would be to shoot roll film unless commissioned.

    I am British living in Sweden shooting architectural homes and have wondered if a field camera would hold too many restrictions for me.

    My aim is to move on to shooting exteriors and interiors of large architectural buildings so I would think a monorail view camera would be more appropriate.

    I looked at a Sinar F1 and SinarP2 and realised the construction of the P2 was robust and strong...however a studio based camera based on the weight..

    Sometimes I shoot long exposures of 10mins-1hr and am worried about the wind moving my camera and also I shoot in the rain and snow so interested on opinions of shooting in these conditions.

    I want to buy a 5x4 kit on the web, however I find all the people i phoneup to speak with unfriendly and patronising and always in a hurry.

    So I have held off from buying anything.

    wide angle and standard lenses are what i need ive been used to using 40mm+80mm lenses on my 6x6 so I guess thats like buying in 5x4 terms a 65 or 75 lens and a 150 lens.

    I am also worried about the whole composing the image whilst being upside down ..however Ive been told i need a bino reflex for this and it will flip the image.

    I have looked through this site and read articles however it still does not help me make any decision as to which camera i need.I phoned up Mrcad in the UK which say they ship all the Sinars to BHphoto in the US.They said that the Norma was abetter camera than the Sinar.But got angry i asked questions so I need help..

    good suggestions and any suggestions about Sinars or Swiss Arca any camera system I dont mind. I dont want money to be an issue as this will be a system that I will have for years. I bought a Bronica years ago and it has been great for what i needed it for but it never had shift lenses and used a spirit level on my tripod to keep parrallels.So i dont want to compromise any more however the P2 system i know is too heavy

    this kit below I picked up on myself is what i need to get going

    F1 Sinar ground glass screen polaroid back standard lens/150 1 wide angle lens 65 or 75 lens bino reflex monorail bag bellows a couple of dark slides 6x9 roll back dark cloth

    I dont know why if id be better getting Sinar F or F1 or F2 or any other camera.

    Please can any interior + architectural photographers enlighten me as I dont have anyone to ask who i can get advice from

    I look forward to your responses

  2. #2
    Whatever David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    I need advice to buy 5x4 for interiors & architecture Im changing from using medium format

    What you're looking at is a perfectly good setup.

    A 90mm lens is very useful for architecture with 4x5". I wouldn't want to be without one.

    A 75mm is about as wide as one can go for interiors without making the space look bigger than it is. Sometimes one needs a 65mm or wider just to get everything in, but in most cases, I think it it produces an exaggerated appearance on 4x5", and since 65mm lenses don't leave much room for movement anyway on 4x5", you could stick with your 40mm/6x6 combo for now when you need a very wide lens, and use a 75mm for interiors when 90mm is not enough.

    Another alternative might be to go with a combo like 150/80 Super-Symmar XL/65.

    I'd hold off on the bino reflex viewer and decide whether you really need it. Most people get used to the upside-down image fairly quickly, and a reflex viewer is a bulky thing. It's not as if you are following a moving subject and will be unable to correct if you move the camera in the wrong direction at first. It's a matter of personal preference, and you can always add a reflex viewer, if you think you need it.

  3. #3

    Join Date
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    I need advice to buy 5x4 for interiors & architecture Im changing from using medium format

    There is a lot of info on our web site that will be helpful

    www.viewcamera.com

    also, get a copy of Phtographing Buildings Inside and Out by Norman McGrath

    steve simmons

  4. #4

    I need advice to buy 5x4 for interiors & architecture Im changing from using medium format

    I think the lenses arent so much of a problem yet I think its a question of which camera body ,bellows,rail to get ..

    for me i am not used to looking at such dark viewing.I tried looking at a p2 in a London Calumet store with a dark cloth it was so hot in there it was uncomfortable to be under the dark cloth....however it takes time and experience to understand upside down..I dont think I could compose without it.

    150/80 Super-Symmar XL/65

    Super-Symmar XL/65. ? thats the type of lens i presume Super Symmar

    I need advice on bodies and kits to go for

    and is a 6x9roll back gonna work with a 65 or 75 lens well enough without loosing too much frame.

    am i better off getting a slide on/off roll back.

    I read this "The Sinar C /C2 ("C" for combination) is exactly what it sounds like ; the front standard from a Sinar F/f1/f2 used with the rear end of a Sinar P or P2. it is heavier than any of the Sinar F cameras, but substantially lighter than a P. I found this to be the best combination for both location and studio work. The p rear standard is much more precise and more delightful to use than the F/F1/F2 rear standard. The built-in depth of field & tilt/swing angle calculator is much more precise and easier to use than the simplified version used in the F cameras. It is also uses truly asymmetric tilts and swing axis, while the F cameras use simple base tilt designs on both standards."

    if looking for a camera would you suggest this combination of any sinar F body combined with Sinar P Rear and is this something you see advertised or you have to make up the kit yourself...

    any help welcome thanks for your comments so far

  5. #5

    Join Date
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    I need advice to buy 5x4 for interiors & architecture Im changing from using medium format

    I am only an amateur, so my advice may not be too relevant. I had been using a Horseman Technical Camera with a 6 x 7 roll film holder for years, but about three years ago I got a Toho FC-45X 4 x 5 view camera. My camera doesn't have a bag bellows and also may not be quite rigid enough for professional architectural photography, so you are probably better off with what you have in mind. But I do have a few comments. First, assuming you don't use the square format, you are probably cropping your 6 x 6 to 6 x 4.5 or something similar. The ratio going to 4 x 5 would then be about 120/56 ~ 2.14. That means 40 mm with your Bronica is roughly equivalent to 85 mm with 4 x 5. Norman McGrath and other experts in (indoor) architectural photography say that extreme wide angle lenses are seldom of any use for interior photography. It might be that 90 mm would be more than adequate for you interior needs. A 150 mm lens or even shorter would certainly be a good normal lens.

    For exterior architecture, there are always circumstances where you would like a wider angle lens. But of course you also have to worry more about light fall off---probalby requiring the use of a center filter---and wide angle "distortions", particularly when using rise/fall. I eventually got myself a 75 mm Grandagon-M, but in retrospect I think I would have been better off with a 72 mm Super Angulon XL. That lens has a fairly large image circle---allowing extensive movements----and seems favored by architectural photographers. The 65 mm lenses I looked at didn't seem to allow for much movement.

    One thing I found surprising was that I had to be much more careful that my standards were parallel, when focusing on a building facade, with the 75 mm lens than was the case with my 90 mm lens. It appears that placement of the exact plane of focus is more demanding with wider angle lenses. This is something you may not expect from your 6 x 6 experience since it is less of an issue for smaller formats. So there may be something of a learning curve invovled in using wide angle lenses in 4 x 5, beyond the usual matters of learning about tilts and swings.

  6. #6
    Beverly Hills, California
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    I need advice to buy 5x4 for interiors & architecture Im changing from using medium format

    James, you gotta consider seriously using the 6x9 Roll Film Holder primarily as this will help control film costs and is potentially more flexible in terms of selection of film. This also means you might reconsider your lens selection down lower more like 65mm, 58mm, 55mm, and perhaps even the 47 and 45 lenses.

    Summary: If I had the money, I would suggest Schneider 110XL and Rodenstock Grandagon 55 for starters as these lenese can be useful to you both in the 4x5 and roll film format.

    Regarding the Sinar, forget it! They're studio oriented.

    For architecture, think Toyo G, Arca Swiss, Linhoff Teknikardan 45S. Toyo G's are gotten off EBay cheap. They are not prestigious European cameras, but are precise and give good bang for the buck, and accesories can also be gotten cheap off EBay.

    About the camera stability, it's about having a largish, sturdy tripod, and monorail block-to-three way tripod head connection that's strong and stiff.

    Finally as David Goldfarb says, "I'd hold off on the bino reflex viewer and decide whether you really need it" - Agreed!

    Once you gather your money and make a well thought out decision, you'll never go back to the Bronica for architecture. And hopefully, your business will improve.

  7. #7

    I need advice to buy 5x4 for interiors & architecture Im changing from using medium format

    If your looking for a lightweight view camera able of lots of movements with short focal lenghts, you should take a look at the 'new' Arca-Swiss misura… You will find here a discussion that contains a link to a review of this camera.

  8. #8

    I need advice to buy 5x4 for interiors & architecture Im changing from using medium format

    I read the pdf page on view camera website about choosing a large format camera and it says to consider your lenses before the body.

    so far i have had a suggestion with a 6x9 roll back i should look into these lenses Schneider 110XL and Rodenstock Grandagon 55

    and perhaps the 'new' Arca-Swiss misura could be of interest so i will look into the post..

    thanks for your comments.You have to realise I am in Sweden and you cant just go and look at these cameras or try them out...

    I want to do my research and then make a purchase and ship it.

    so keep the comments coming I will read the new arca post now

  9. #9
    Beverly Hills, California
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    I need advice to buy 5x4 for interiors & architecture Im changing from using medium format

    PS:

    I have and use the Toyo 6x9 RFH that slips in under the ground glass. You have to really open the Gound Glass back WIDE to insert it. It's a coordinated effort but can be done smoothly if you have "the touch" But it also has great potential to tweak the camera out of place after you've set up the shot carefully if not done properly.

    I really like the Toyo 6x9 roll film holder, but I've heard some photographers who had slight fitting problems on Non-Toyo cameras. Therefore, I would recommend the Horseman 6x9 variety which replaces the ground glass enmasse. This has less potenetial to dispupt the back of the camera, and is ensured of a more universal fit across camera brands.

  10. #10

    I need advice to buy 5x4 for interiors & architecture Im changing from using medium format

    wow so much response..

    guillaume p just suggested the 'new' Arca-Swiss misura so I just took a look at this site http://www.galerie-photo.com/misura_peronne_us.html

    and it does look interesting but says this

    "Probably the most controversial technical point is the lack of rear tilts and swings. What are the actual limitations of this lacking feature, as far as I am concerned in my work as an architecture photographer? The only combination of movements that the misura cannot provide are high amplitude indirect rises, for example to capture an architectural detail located well above the camera, while preserving full perspective control with a long focal length. All other kinds of movements where perspective control is important, based on tilts and swings, can be achieved by substituting rear tilt and swing angles by equivalent angles applied to front movements, combined with generous front+back movements of shift, rise and fall. For example, the classical effect of foreground enhancement obtained by a rear tilt can be achieved by combining a front tilt with rise and fall movements plus a global tilt of the camera."

    since i am not used to thinking 5x4 or large format using terms like front rise and fall are not really sinking in much..what this guy is saying how important is it?

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