Help removing super angulon 165/8 from extended Sinar lensboard

[Michael_qrt]

Hi all, I've got a single coated Super Angulon 165/8, the type with the funky shutter housing as pictured. The glass is excellent and the shutter works great but so far I haven't been able to remove it from a Sinar extended lens board it came mounted on. The rear cell can be unscrewed and I've attached a couple of annotated pictures showing the rear of the shutter mount. Basically with these lenses you can't easily remove the front cell and although it uses a #1 shutter the rear cell doesn't directly screw into the shutter, rather it screws into the shutter housing, which all mounts in a larger hole in the lensboard. I'm trying to remoe the whole apparatus from the lensboard.

So far I have tried turning the slotted threaded ring pointed out in my pictures, assuming it is a retaining ring of some kind. I couldn't get it to budge despite using an SK Grimes lens spanner mounted in a vise and applying as much torque as I was comfortable with. There is also a standard looking shutter retaining ring that looks like it holds the shutter to the housing, it didn't seem like removing that would help as the whole housing needs to be removed from the board (since the rear cell mounts to the housing). It must come off the board as I've seen these lenses for sale unmounted but perhaps I don't understand exactly what the mounting mechanism is. If anyone has some experience with these lenses and could tell me what needs to happen to get it off I would really appreciate it. Even if I'm already trying the right thing it would be good to have confirmation.

Thanks all

[BradS]

Just looking at the photos you've supplied, I'd remove the thing that looks very obviously to be the shutter retaining ring. That will free the shutter and front group from the rest of the specialized mount. Maybe, after doing that it will be more obvious how to disassemble the rest of it....

[Michael_qrt]

The shutter on these lenses is built into a mount/housing, it might not be well shown in my first picture but I'll add another to this post that I've nicked from the web. Anyway the shutter and front element on these lenses doesn't look like it will come off in the normal way if I undo that ring. I was hoping that someone who has handled one of these lenses would be able to tell me what the deal is.

[Michael_qrt]

Has no one handled one of these lenses? I'm thinking that the fact that the lens is mounted on an extended Sinar board is a red herring, as far as I can tell that's not part of the shutter housing though it does make it a bit more awkward to get in here and see what's going on. Another question, assuming I can get it off the board what size hole in the lensboard is required to mount this lens? Is it a standard #3 hole?

Thanks all.

[BradS]

have you tried removing the shutter retaining ring as suggested above? What were the results of doing so?

[Jac@stafford.net]

Just looking at the photos you've supplied, I'd remove the thing that looks very obviously to be the shutter retaining ring. That will free the shutter and front group from the rest of the specialized mount. Maybe, after doing that it will be more obvious how to disassemble the rest of it....

Michael, I think Brad is referring to the retainer with four detents. If removing that retainer leaves just the rear element retainer, no glass left in the mount, then you could try a penetrating fluid and small increases in heat. There is a very good thread here on that technique.

[BradS]

I'm talking about the inner most retiner (shown in the third photo) - which is quite obviously holding the shutter to the lensboard/special mount. Removing it will allow the shutter and whole front group to be removed from the board/mount. It is the obvious next step.

[Michael_qrt]

OK, I tried loosening the inner retaining ring which holds the shutter and the shutter becomes loose in the housing but the front element is still rigidly attached to the housing. In this lens the front and rear cells are attached to the housing and not the front and rear shutter threads, the shutter is seperately attached to the housing.

[Floyd Waller]

In this vintage lens, the shutter is enclosed in the housing shown with the black and silver fluted adjustment ring. That is part of the normal configuration around the front group regardless of the package it was sold in, Sinar, Linhof, or Schneider alone. Yours is mounted on an extended Sinar board and that outer slotted ring shown in Figure 3 should be the sole retaining ring and the attachment diameter should be the size of the inner diameter of that ring. I have the comparable 121 F8 Super Angulon and they used this outer housing(I believe) to provide additional support and protection for such large flared lenses. The later 120/8 and 165/8 SA lenses were provided in standard shutters without the outer support shroud. I am trying to understand if you are trying to removed the shroud with scales shown on it or just remove the whole assembly from the Sinar extended board. It is intended to be used in the configuration shown here in your second posting. I haven't dealt with the 165/8 personally but I doubt that it is larger than a #1 shutter. I had a previous 121/8 from a dead shutter which I remounted in a #0 shutter. There is the possibility, however, that like the previous 165/6.8 Angulon that it is the extinct #2 shutter.

[Michael_qrt]

Hi Floyd, thanks for sharing your experience. The situation is that I'm trying to remove the lens from the Sinar extended board simply for re-mounting on another board. The shutter looks to be a #1 shutter but as I said the lens cells are not directly connected to the shutter and are rather directly connected to the housing/shroud. Fortunately in this case the shutter works very well but I can't get the outer retaining ring to budge at all. What you've said should confirm my initial thought that this ring is all that's holding the lens to the board.

The techniques I've tried so far to remove that ring are to use an SK Grimes lens spanner mounted in a vise as recommended to apply maximum torque, additionally I have flowed (very) small amounts of acetone and penetrating oil into the threads and around the outer retaining ring in the hope that they would help if a threadlocking compound was used or it had just seized up after many years (though the cosmetic condition of the lens is good with no corrosion/pitting visible anywhere). With the front cell glass and shutter still attached I can't safely apply heat to try to loosen the ring so I'm running out of ideas.

Has anyone here dealt with incredibly stuck retaining rings before? How did you end up dealing with it or did you give up?

One more thought I had is that I've heard that in order to remove the front cell on these lenses you have to remove the front glass element (gulp) from the front cell and remove some screws from inside. Maybe if I could do that and get the front cell off, then the shutter out of the housing/shroud I could apply heat to the ring in the hope of loosening it.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions