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Thread: Formally Learning B&W Photography

  1. #31
    photobymike's Avatar
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    Formally Learning B&W Photography

    Well this is were you will find a lot of opinion on how to photo a scene like you described...quite common actually. I personally do not vary film developing times. I would determine where you want your grey 18 percent to be. This is the middle gray of a print... if you are photography people this would be about where skin tones should be. I would use a yellow to try and catch the sky detail....The sky is the source for UV light and modern films are little sensitive to this light.... yellow brings the sky into detail....makes the skin shine also. Then if it is really bright use a graduated filter or a half clear and have neutral density filter or yellow...

    There are ways to vary the density characteristics of film and they call it the zone system and or BTZS .. with different develop times. I would not work with doing this until you have several hundred sheets shot. N1 or N-1 are the symbols that photographers use to represent different developing times for changing the developing time to control the contrast and density of there negatives. I would work on getting consistent results on your negatives first. I scan all of my negatives now so i do not use anything other than what the recommended times for film are. Then i make the adjustments on the scanner and computer for printing and display on a monitor... which are different by the way. Different discussion different time needed....Work with filters and watch the your sky change and the skin tones.. try and use filters to compress or bring in your highlights....


    this is my opinion ...do the basics first ..make sure there is an understanding of the basics before manipulating the dev procedures...

  2. #32

    Re: Formally Learning B&W Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Stone View Post
    do you WANT to get "technical" or do you want to make pictures, and not worry about "the tech" once you find something that works for you and your intended purposes?

    I mean.... If you don't care to "dabble in this, then try that, "Oh, that's a swell deal, I'll give that a shot"..." FOCUS on what you want to do with your photography, and then, once targeted, seek out help if needed.
    But the most important thing you can do to REALLY learn photography, and to SEE PHOTOGRAPHICALLY, is to SHOOT. Shoot and make mistakes(not necessarily intentionally). Ruin negatives by overdeveloping. Learn by making mistakes. Learn to identify what works, and what doesn't.
    You can read a million books on photography, getting to "know the tech". Ya, being a tech-head is cool and all, but if the rubber can't meet the road, and you're not getting stuff done, then what's the point? Even if you're only doing this to have fun, I don't think anyone enjoys wasting time...

    Photography is a wonderful hobby, and for some, a wonderful career. But letting the "tech" bog you down to the point of not knowing which way to go when you want to photograph, it can be maddening. Simplify your equipment and materials, and I'm sure you'll have a clearer, more concise vision without being getting convoluted with choices...

    If you want to make mural enlargements with ultra-fine detail, then I recommend you engage books/literature/online info relating to that nature.
    If you want to contact print(so a bigger negative makes a larger sized print, no enlarging of the film), then there is piles of info about relating to that too.
    If you want to make platinum prints, carbon prints, photogravures, etc... There are a million "options". Pick one out and go with it . Yes, some can balance multiple processes, but from what I've seen, the most successful photographers generally have one type of print that they use as their 'default'. That's their standard, their bedrock process, so to speak.

    Courses are great, for VERY FEW. Photography is an art that HAS to be learned by DOING. That means MAKING PICTURES. Bad ones and good ones. You learn from your mistakes.
    We're all different, and trying to wrap YOUR head around someone else's methodology can drive one INSANE(speaking from experience here!). Workshops CAN be wonderful experiences, again for SOME. Same arguments IMO.
    If a photographer you admire and respect delivers an end product(a print) that mirrors what YOU want to see in YOUR photographs, ask questions. Most people will be happy to share their "secrets" .

    All the best to you and your quest.
    A simple piece of advice: choose one film and (1) developer right off the bat. Learn them until you know the limitations of that combo inside and out, backwards and forwards. Something even as simple as Tri-X and HC-110. Ya, it's a "basic" combo, but hell; it worked for ANSEL ADAMS, and I don't hear very many photographers poo-pooing his prints... Well I've heard some, but most of them haven't spent upwards of 1% time-wise of what he did to perfect his craft during his lifetime.
    IF you can't seem to get what you want after using that combo for a year or so(taking pictures regularly, I'm talking 200+ negatives), feel free to look at other films or developers/processes. Have fun, but stay diligent, and DO NOT BE AFRAID TO TEST THE LIMITATIONS of your materials. Tri-X+HC-110 has delivered many a good negative for me over the past few years, and it's a DEAD-SIMPLE combo. If for some reason you can't get Tri-X easily in Pakistan, give Ilford Delta 100 a try. Great film too. Slower yes, but very nice all-round.

    BE A LEADER IN YOUR PHOTOGRAPHY, NOT A FOLLOWER

    cheers,
    Dan
    I couldn't agree more. Practice makes perfect. Learning by doing is the ideal approach. You may consult books and videos to complement your knowledge. You may want to take a few lessons with a tutor who can answer any questions on technical issues and techniques. You can learn a lot from experienced people. In addition, you need to be bold and experiment with some films. You will eventually find the most appropriate equipment and materials.

  3. #33

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    Re: Formally Learning B&W Photography

    Lean by doing. Make the picture. Make notes what you did. If you think the shadows are to dark in the print, expose more the next time you take the picture. (expose for the shadows). If you think the highlight are blown out. Develop less. (develop for the highlights). Keep making the same kind of picture until you get it right.
    Besides nothing wrong with your camera, developer. X-ray film will be difficult to control for pictorial purposes.

  4. #34
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Formally Learning B&W Photography

    I don't get this discussion. To have some "formal" instruction in photography or to "learn by doing" are not at all mutually exclusive. Formal instruction also requires "doing".

    No matter how much instruction you get you are going to end having to do a lot of learning by doing, but instruction can jump start some of that. For example, it took me years to figure out the ZS. I just couldn't get it and no one I knew personally used it (even at UNM where some years later I taught it). Finally Fred Pickers book came along-I did the exersizes and walah!! That book was actually a kind of "formal" learning as it taught the ZS by step by step procedures which I had to perform by doing the exercises. I wish I had taken a workshop with one of the masters of it or wish that Picker's book had come out years earlier. It would have saved me a lot of mistakes resulting in extremely difficult to print negatives that were either improperly exposed and/or developed for the situation.

    I fully recommend getting some instruction AND learning by doing. Why the dichotomy on this issue? Do people think getting some instruction reflects some kind of weakness?
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  5. #35
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Formally Learning B&W Photography

    I agree with Kirk. Knowing how to do good, basic exposure and development tests, the kind that Fred outlined in his book, can save a ton of time and remove a lot of guess work.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  6. #36
    Raffay's Avatar
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    Re: Formally Learning B&W Photography

    Hi, I understand what most people are saying, when they emphasise that I need to take pictures to learn. I am not saying that I want to learn without actually taking any pictures, what I mean and I agree with Kirk here is that it would be better and more time efficient if I can take a more structured route. Without any direction it sometimes gets difficult to learn from every picture you take because you end up doing the same stuff again and again without a stage wise improvement. It would be more efficient if I could follow a more structured route. I mean some basic exercises in composition, lighting, how to read a negative for example I should be able to tell if it is a thin or whatever negative I have then finally printing.

    I am not saying that I want to get over involved in the books but I would certainly like to know the basics of the entire process and then practice to learn, make mistakes as some of you suggested and I am sure I will have my own learning curve. I totally agree that I will only actually learn by doing but then I believe that I should at least know what I am trying to do.

    I know it sounds totally confusing but hopefully it will start to make sense soon

    Cheers

    Raffay

  7. #37

    Re: Formally Learning B&W Photography

    Quote Originally Posted by tgtaylor View Post
    Raffay,

    Reach out to the local artists community: http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-New...cased-tomorrow I'm sure that they can hook you up with local photographers and surely there is at least one in Islamabad that still shoots film and/or has used a LF camera in the past.

    Thomas
    This advice seems to be something that can work out for you. I completely understand your need to learn methodically. You need someone to tell you you are improving. You may often suffer from self-doubt. Do not forget to enjoy the process of learning. You can learn many aspects of photography independently; and seek assistance only if necessary. This approach has worked out for me. You should decide what you want to learn and then look for the right material.
    Kenny Paisley
    London, UK
    Website Owner
    www.simpledigitalphoto.com

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