Scanning Mounted 8x10 Film Epson Flatbed

[spacegoose]

Hi Andrew,

That's what I've been doing. Based on things I've read here and elsewhere, I tape a negative, base side to normal glass (possess but have not tried on museum glass), flip glass over, so film emulsion is facing platen, and shim or rise the glass with 4 pennies, selecting (and using) film area guide.

I still have a very hard time getting it to line up properly in preview, due in probable part to crooked mounting, and / or crooked placement of mounted negative over platen.

I need to come up with a registration system, and determine if using the film area guide is actually required; for 8x10 I know you must select film area guide in the software.

I spoke to a tech at Aztek just a moment ago and he suggested on a test V750 from Epson, the optimal focus and scan (using targets), was achieved when mounting the film directly on platen (and not with the V750 fluid holder),

but he also mentioned this could be different from scanner to scanner, due to tolerances, etc. I don't have a V750 but do have the V700 and 4990, which may be yet another focus variable.

The tech also recommended that if mounting on the scanner platen, it would be wise to seal the edges, perhaps with the special Kami tape that doesn't dissolve when in contact with mounting fluid.

I wonder if using more fluid and Mylar on top of the film is beneficial when direct wet platen mounting?

I find it interesting that the Epson V750 fluid holder and better scanning station do not accommodate 8x10, though I do imagine they get to use the better lens - which is used when "scan with film holder" is selected.


Bill

[SMBooth]

If using a V700 try using "Lumina" fliud (scan science) lightly sprayed directly on the glass a wack the negative directly on that. Don't lift the negative off the glass because you will lose focus.

[Lachlan 717]

Bill,

As I mentioned earlier, the different lenses have different coverage.

The higher resolution lens DOES NOT cover 8x10". The only way that you can get this coverage is by using the lower res lens, which is meant to be focused at glass level.

Raising the film on the low res setting will, in theory if you're scanner is calibrated to this glass level, put it out of focus. It is only the higher res/smaller field option (i.e. with an appropriate film holder) that warrants raising the film.

Unless your scanner is somehow not prefocused on the glass' surface, then raising it when you're obtaining full 8x10 coverage is not giving you the sharpest scan.

[Andrew O'Neill]

That's what I thought. I'll keep scanning directly on the scanner bed.

[pinup tragic]

A vintage 8 x 10 scanned on the platen with film area guide, from memory emulsion side up and a piece of non reflective platen sized glass to flatten the film, done on my Epson V700 i think 1200 ppi /dpi

[Regular Rod]

A vintage 8 x 10 scanned on the platen with film area guide, from memory emulsion side up and a piece of non reflective platen sized glass to flatten the film, done on my Epson V700 i think 1200 ppi /dpi

Yes and it seems to have Newton Rings around the area next to her right hand and there also seems to be some more around two dots in the black background, one on the left of the picture about halfway up and another towards the top left corner.

I've found my V700 will work well with black and white negatives, emulsion down but not so well with colour as the Newton Rings are bad no matter whether the emulsion is up or down...

It's a design fault as far as I'm concerned. The damn thing should work with a holder of some sort so the film need not be in contact with the platen glass.

RR

[pinup tragic]

Yes and it seems to have Newton Rings around the area next to her right hand and there also seems to be some more around two dots in the black background, one on the left of the picture about halfway up and another towards the top left corner.
RR

Thanks RR, Probably not a good example of the image, the system re sized it as an attachment - i suppose what i am getting at is the V700 doesn't do a bad job considering it's limitations - rough and ready.
A bigger version 65% only slight sharpen via resizing and on my worpress blog - somewhere not open to the public http://pinupmemories.files.wordpress.../09/scan2a.jpg Some film damage and scrapes.

[Regular Rod]

The bigger image shows them up a little better, including some more on the top right in the black background. I reckon, if that is a silver negative, by turning it emulsion side down you will be able to scan without the Newton Rings... They seem to come when the film itself is in contact with the glass, hence the problem with colour no matter which way up you have the negative or transparency. Very frustrating and I'm sure EPSON could fix this...

RR

[pasiasty]

The bigger image shows them up a little better, including some more on the top right in the black background. I reckon, if that is a silver negative, by turning it emulsion side down you will be able to scan without the Newton Rings... They seem to come when the film itself is in contact with the glass, hence the problem with colour no matter which way up you have the negative or transparency. Very frustrating and I'm sure EPSON could fix this...

RR

I'm afraid they can't do much more then they've already done: you can use their wet mounting kit, and you should have no Newton rings. What they could is providing a holder for 5x7 and 13x18 - it still fits within viewing range of hi-res lens.

There are silver halide films that are prone to Newton rings even if put emulsion down, e.g. Wephota FO5 - its emulsion side is as glossy as the reverse one. That's why I've decided for EvenBetterScanning (R) - a DIY adjustable under-mounting holder, made out of 'anti-Newton glass' (a piece of glass from anti-reflex clip-frame). First try yesterday was promising, but you can't do the same for 8x10 (for V700/750). What I'm afraid of is film flatness, but it shouldn't be worse than in a glass-less frame.

[AlexGard]

Just reading over the few threads I've found on the internet regarding wet or dry scanning and flat on the bed or raised on glass...


how critical are we talking here, in terms of difference in sharpness? Is this fine-art massive-print looked-at-through-a-loupe-by-a-fine-art-critic type critical sharpness or is it clearly distinguishable even by looking at on a computer screen by the average LF punter like me?

I only ask because I will only be able to scan my 8x10 negatives for the foreseeable future and would like to print from them, not overly massive but you know larger or about 24"-30" on the long side. Will sharpness really be that obvious or only to the highly tuned eye?

It seems a lot of you seem know a bit about what you're talking about but it sounds all very technical and I have to keep reminding myself that the people talking about these things are highly trained or critical of such things, rather than the pedestrian consumer...

Will I be satisfied with flat-on-the glass scans as an amateur photographer looking to print and frame rather than someone exhibiting in fine art exhibitions?

Cheers
Alex