4x5 Lens Questions for Small Building Exteriors

[kahudson]

I'm beginning a project to take photos of urban and rural "juke joints" many of which are being abandoned or re-purposed. I am thinking of buying into a 4x5 system (Toyo 45) to do so. In general, these buildings are one or two stories tall and I would be within 10-20 feet of the building. At this point, my focus is just on the exteriors. I obviously would want some negative space or (depending on the situation) some contextual space around the building. However, I do want the image of the building to comprise most of the negative.

1. Do I really need a lot of movements? I may be thinking about this incorrectly, but I would think I would need more movements for larger and taller buildings and less for smaller ones.

2. If I'm trying to take the photos from within about 10-20 feet of relatively small buildings, would a 90mm lens suffice? Or should I go wider to 75mm or longer to 110-120mm?

3. I am hoping to do most of this work with one lens. Is that really feasible?

4. Is the Toyo system of camming lenses workable with the Linhoff system are others? I am looking for something close to universal that should work with a variety of lens/shutters.

Thanks.

[ic-racer]

If you have a camera now you can calculate the angle of view and let that guide your first large format lens.
The amount of vertical lens movement needed to eliminate converging verticals in your photographs would be difficult to estimate; too many variables.
In terms of rangefinder cams, if you intend on using camera movements, ground glass focusing will be your best option.
Any lens can image any building exterior if one has free range of motion around the building. Lenses of differing focal length will aid in dealing with obstacles.

[Noah A]

Toyo cameras, at least the current ones, don't have rangefinders so there is no camming involved. With LF cameras you just need to buy the appropriate lensboard for the camera and for shutter size of the lens.

10-20 feet sounds a bit close, but doable. I do a lot of urban landscape work, and I shoot 90 percent or more of my work with a 120mm lens. In my case this is a 120 Super-Symmar HM, but the 110 SSXL, 115 Grandagon or 120 Super Angulon would all work similarly. I really like the 120mm focal length because it captures a lot of real estate but it still doesn't feel like a 'wide' lens. But at ten feet it might not be wide enough. I also carry a 72mm lens for when I need it, but that's not very often and mostly for interiors, taller buildings or trying to capture a bunch of buildings from close up.

If you really want to stick to one lens, a 90mm might do it--it would get you out of tight situations better than a 120. But it will feel more like a wideangle lens, which you may or may not like.

You didn't mention if you're looking at a field camera or a monorail--Toyo makes both. You won't probably need a ton of movement--mostly front rise, maybe some shift to center your composition, though personally I usually center it by moving the camera when possible. The Toyo field cameras are a bit limited on rise. If you want a field camera you might also consider a Wista metal field camera (like the VX) or a used Linhof Technika. Both have a good amount of rise. Some very wide lenses like 75mm and under may limit your ability to use movements with some field cameras. Just something to think about. With a 110/115/120, you'll likely still get lots of movements out of a field camera.

If you choose a 75mm or shoter, you'll probably be much happier with a monorail camera.

If you have an iphone, check out the viewfinder pro app. It will show you the approximate field of view of various lenses on various camera formats, including 4x5. Or you could cut a 4x5 inch hole in a piece of cardboard and attach a string. Measure the string from where it is attached to the cardboard and mark it at the various focal lengths you're considering. Then hold it up to your eye at the various distances to estimate the field of view of the lenses.

[Jac@stafford.net]

I'm beginning a project to take photos of urban and rural "juke joints" many of which are being abandoned or re-purposed. [...]

If I'm trying to take the photos from within about 10-20 feet of relatively small buildings,

That is an exciting, and truly challenging project. I have found a 47mm F/5.6 Super Angulon and center filter over 4x5 a good choice for certain shots which require no movements. In fact I built a camera just for that purpose. There are better wide angle lenses of similar focal length. Look to Grandagons. It would be great if you could borrow one (where do you live?)

During a discussion with two friends I worked with on-staff forty years ago I was informed that the look we get with the limitations of such applications today might be unique in the future when digital defeats the limitations of such wide applications, for better or worse. I take it to be a good thing to stick to film for just that reason - it rather time-stamps the view we choose to work with today.

[Terry Christian]

If you have a 35mm camera, you can get an approximation in large format by taking the appropriate focal length and multiplying times 3.

For one to two story buildings, I'd be inclined to say that as long as you have front rise/fall, you'd be fine, but more movements will give you greater versatility.

[Bob Salomon]

No, Linhof, Toyo, Wista cams are not interchanable.

[kahudson]

[..] if you intend on using camera movements, ground glass focusing will be your best option.

Toyo cameras, at least the current ones, don't have rangefinders so there is no camming involved. With LF cameras you just need to buy the appropriate lensboard for the camera and for shutter size of the lens.

I think I misunderstood camming lenses. I think I should have just been referencing lensboards.

10-20 feet sounds a bit close, but doable. I do a lot of urban landscape work, and I shoot 90 percent or more of my work with a 120mm lens. [..] If you really want to stick to one lens, a 90mm might do it--it would get you out of tight situations better than a 120. But it will feel more like a wideangle lens, which you may or may not like.

I may not be estimating this well. Usually, I take photos of people and from a closer distance. However, I was just trying to think about taking photos from a parking lot or across relatively narrow streets.

You didn't mention if you're looking at a field camera or a monorail--Toyo makes both. You won't probably need a ton of movement--mostly front rise, maybe some shift to center your composition, though personally I usually center it by moving the camera when possible. The Toyo field cameras are a bit limited on rise. If you want a field camera you might also consider a Wista metal field camera (like the VX) or a used Linhof Technika.

I'm not wedded to Toyo. I saw some used versions on KEH. A couple of years ago, a photography instructor mentioned it as useful for someone starting out in large format. I will certainly look at others available although a Technika might be a bit out of my league at this point.

If you have an iphone, check out the viewfinder pro app. It will show you the approximate field of view of various lenses on various camera formats, including 4x5.

I downloaded the app and will take it to a few sites over the next few days. Thanks!

That is an exciting, and truly challenging project. I have found a 47mm F/5.6 Super Angulon and center filter over 4x5 a good choice for certain shots which require no movements. In fact I built a camera just for that purpose. There are better wide angle lenses of similar focal length. Look to Grandagons. It would be great if you could borrow one (where do you live?)

It looks cool, but that seems like it would be really wide! I'm not sure that's what I'm going for in terms of a final image. I live in Jackson, MS, but go to New Orleans relatively frequently.

If you have a 35mm camera, you can get an approximation in large format by taking the appropriate focal length and multiplying times 3. For one to two story buildings, I'd be inclined to say that as long as you have front rise/fall, you'd be fine, but more movements will give you greater versatility.

I thought an equivalent to a 24mm or 28mm lens (for a 36x24 frame) would be useful. The closest equivalents for 4x5 should be 75mm, 80mm and 90mm lenses. However, the images I saw on Flickr that met those parameters just looked wider to me. At any rate, this isn't like 35mm, where I can rent these things and try them out so I really appreciate the help.

[Terry Christian]

In that case, I'd suggest starting with about a 90mm and working up or down from there. On 4x5, 90 is a common standard for wide angle, and 135-150 is the normal focal length.

[Kirk Gittings]

In that case, I'd suggest starting with about a 90mm and working up or down from there. On 4x5, 90 is a common standard for wide angle, and 135-150 is the normal focal length.

90 is the common standard for architecture too.

[Mark Sampson]

When I photographed building facades (including some music clubs) in New Orleans, I used a 121mm lens most. But to repeat Mr. Gittings' comment, a 90 would be equally useful; I think a 75 is a special-purpose lens. William Christenberry's studies of juke joints were taken from farther away, and he likely used a 'normal' lens.