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Thread: Hermagis Serial numbers Need your help with a database

  1. #61

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    Re: Hermagis Serial numbers Need your help with a database

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Tribe View Post
    Perhaps you could look inside the barrel to see whether there is a black backing paper strip around the inserted geared track? Or signs that has been one there in the past - and unblacked brass section where the paper used to be?

    And lens glass diameter is?
    Steven, this lens is not mine, I found these pictures on a blog. The geared track is missing. Here is the link.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amedeus View Post
    Agreed that this is somewhat of a assumption changer.

    The lens clearly says "Brevet d'invention" ... question now is, which invention ? The 1856 ? That would be hard to believe as this would suggest an enormous output. What there another brevet/patent prior to 1856 ? Or was this simply bluff ?
    Rudi, one more interesting thing with this lens is the barrel was cut into two pieces and can joint together by screw threads. You can find the details thought the link above. Not sure it was factory cut or cut by users.

  2. #62

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    Re: Hermagis Serial numbers Need your help with a database

    Of course, the patent engraving changes everything!

    I assumed it was a simple barrel as you would have discovered it (if you had it in your hands!). It is the standard make up for the convertible, which is just about impossible to make from a standard barrel and, anyway, a later modification would have gone for a WHS solution.

    It appears to have lost the track, lens hood and the internal stop frame system - a troubled life indeed. The serial number doesn't match with 1856 patent date. Unless it was something produced before the patent date as part of development work or patent application. But then it shouldn't have the patent "boast" engraved.

    The final problem is that it can't be an added serial number as all known convertible Hermagis Petzvals did have a serial number ex-workshop. Could be an example of a 5 digit serial number which has "lost" the last digit?

    WHatever, I'll edit the table again (#20) to reflect uncertainty - which effects the other odd number.

  3. #63

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    Re: Hermagis Serial numbers Need your help with a database

    This is most likely a #9 convertible based on focal length and diameter of the barrel at the rear.

    I took the liberty to have the link from lucaas translated and for what it is worth, this is what the writer states. Some comments added.

    "It is very old HERMAGIS with serial number 2163. There is a theory that HERMAGIS Inc. was founded in 1845. Once in 1854 the stamp of DEROGY et HERMAGIS can be seen, but then we will return to HERMAGIS again. There is a document that 8745 is manufactured in 1862, so on average it seems that we produced about 500 lenses a year. From this, it can be inferred that lens No. 2163 is manufactured around 1850."

    "I read a handwritten F = 13.5 under the engraving. This is thought to be a note by the former owner of the focal length."

    "If you attach the rack and pinion gear down to the camera, the engraving will turn upside down. Moreover, the engraved mark becomes hidden because it is hidden by the knob. Furthermore the shaft of the knob is very long."

    "Disassembled view. The inner lens barrel can be divided into two. I saw this for the first time. The optical system is an ordinary Petzval. There is no diaphragm function at all."

    "The lens is handwritten with Hermagis in pencil."

    "A two-part barrel. Since there is no aperture, there is no need to split here. Perhaps I wanted to narrow the inner diameter slightly here and want to reduce internal reflection." ---- the writer is clearly not familiar with the convertible

    "Screw the two-piece lens barrel together and it will fit at the position of the rack gear exactly. The rack gear itself is lost.
    What a wonderful thread cutting technique! Although I was impressed, I think I would cut the groove for the rack gear afterwards. Probably initially it was a lens with neither diaphragm nor focusing function, but I think that a rack and pinion gear was added later" --- see my remark above.

    "Since the flange is lost, a 52 mm step-up ring is glued" --- writer mounts the lens to a 52mm helicoid for use on a DSLR, this and the focal length most likely indicates that this is a #9 convertible with a lens diameter of ~44mm.

    "The orientation of the characters of the engraving is also strange. It is obvious to concluded the pinion gear was added without thinking about engraving. The overall look is much like the lens manufactured by Voigtlander in Wien in 1851."

    cheers,
    Last edited by Amedeus; 28-Jan-2018 at 11:01.

  4. #64

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    Jul 2012
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    Re: Hermagis Serial numbers Need your help with a database

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Tribe View Post
    Added to the list. There are quite a few years in the 1870's after this one (1874), where we still have holes and, perhaps, low annual productions. Could this be due to Dallmeyer's Patent Petzval becoming popular?
    This update relates to post #54

    The new owner of this lens confirmed the lens diameter (79mm visible, 81mm diameter) and the focal length of 210mm. This makes it a F:2.7, not part of the typical list we use for the convertibles. So looking at all the lists I have for Petzval types from Hermagis, I can only find this configuration in the Serie Nr II from around 1900. There's a #6 which is 210mm at F2.7.

    Only thing to conclude is that a list is just a list and that specials or prototypes were made as far as we can assume now.

    Cheers,

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