Hermagis Serial numbers Need your help with a database

[purplecloud]

Do you know what's written in pencil on the edge of the lenses ?

Just curious, part of the fun finding out ;-)

Cheers !

I apologise for the very late answer, finally I took the lens apart and looked at the edges of the lenses
Actually there WAS something written with a pencil on both front and rear lenses, but unfortunately it is all smudged and not readable anymore
Some signs may be interpreted as to have formed the words "Hermagis" and "Paris", the rest is unfathomable

[Amedeus]

I'm the new owner of 15981 (1874) and the black paper is still over the track at the inside. Confirming the 210mm focal length with f2.7, covering 4x5. In addition to the 1874 on both achromat and negative lens in the rear cell, there's a 2 written in front (Deuxieme ?) I know Hermagis had at one point a Petzval series with larger aperture.

Cheers,

[Steven Tribe]

Looking at the two versions of series II on page 9 of the le reve Hermagis booklet, it is difficult to place it exactly! It certainly moves the date of this series ( which includes a number of these superfast F2.7 and even some around F2.5) to an earlier date that "1876" given in the booklet. This series was available until 1939!

[Steven Tribe]

Received a #4 Hermagis Convertible 9787 today.

Front Achromat reads "Hermagis" and in similar cursive writing "B.L.N". In addition in what I believe to be a different style writing "E. Vallet"

Rear negative meniscus reads "Hermagis" and in similar cursive writing "B.L.N". We find the same "E. Vallet" writing. Almost illegible, in small cursive also E. Donche. Some rim glass damage to this element. ...........................

Cheers,

Just realised that "Vallet" is mostly likely an artisan's rendering of Wallet who was given as co-producer of the early 1845 lenses, engraved Wallet & Hermagis! Or the E. Vallet could be Elisabeth Wallet (the daughter!) who married Eugene Derogy in 1852.

Derogy had worked at Wallet and Hermagis' establishment some time after 1845 and before 1851 (when he was 22 years old). There is at least one lens which is engraved Derogy et Hermagis (Corrado's book). So signs of a workshop romance!

[Amedeus]

Just realised that "Vallet" is mostly likely an artisan's rendering of Wallet who was given as co-producer of the early 1845 lenses, engraved Wallet & Hermagis! Or the E. Vallet could be Elisabeth Wallet (the daughter!) who married Eugene Derogy in 1852.

Derogy had worked at Wallet and Hermagis' establishment some time after 1845 and before 1851 (when he was 22 years old). There is at least one lens which is engraved Derogy et Hermagis (Corrado's book). So signs of a workshop romance!

I will look at this again and see if I can get the lighting right for images ...

Cheers,

[Steven Tribe]

In the 19th century, the letter "W" was not used in the french language. It was used for just a few words like "wallon" (The french speaking part of Belgium) and for personal surnames - like Wallet! It must have hurt traditionalists in France, when "le Weekend" was adopted when no existing expression was available in France. Someone with a basic school education, working on the workshop floor might not be acquainted with the difference between V and W.

[Steven Tribe]

I have thought of a new explanation for the very few early serial number engraved lenses. These appear to be genuine, but are many thousand numbers earlier than the known series which started around 6,500.

We know that a great many of the Hermagis Petzvals were made before Waterhouse stops became trade standard. We also know that after 1858, Voigtlander started a factory conversion offer for owners of "older" Petzvals. There was an option for correction of lenses to provide no focus difference between optical and chemical focus, and an option for provision of "central" aperture stops.

I can't really believe that french makers were unaware of Voigtlander's offer. They had already modified the Petzval design and many had a central stop design through making split barrels. But we can see that many front stop Hermagis Petzvals have been professionally converted to Waterhouse slot/stops. Perhaps Hermagis offered the same service that Voigtlander had in the early 1860's? This is a period when just about all makers had adopted serial numbers and a lens without a serial number would have thought of as somewhat bogus! If Hermagis had the same sort of record keeping as Dallmeyer had (stock/sales book) it would be possible to find (Or assign) the true, or approximate, serial number. So Hermagis could provide an extra service.

Both the two known "odd- too early" numbers have the Waterhouse stop conversion.

[picturetraveler]

Hello everyone wanted to share this information

Hermagis Nr 31912
Extra Rapide pr Portrait No 3
450 mm Petzval
17cm high + 4cm Hood Front lens diam 9,2cm
In Pencil the rim of the lens is marked 97.... so it must be a lens from 1897

Thanks for all the info as it helped me a lot in dating the lens.

[karl french]

Extra Rapid Portrait No.3 should be a 310mm lens with 95mm diameter glass. You sure about those figures? Regular Portrait lens No.3 is a 450mm lens, but with 110mm glass.

[Steven Tribe]

Extra Rapid Portrait No.3 should be a 310mm lens with 95mm diameter glass. You sure about those figures? Regular Portrait lens No.3 is a 450mm lens, but with 110mm glass.

Agreed!
The F values for the two series II Hermagis Petzvals do vary a lot ( from F2.7 to 3.5), but the focal length of 450mm would give a F of nearly F5!
Variation in catalogue lens diameter and measured diameter is due to Hermagis using the bare glass diameter before mounting.