Photography on BLM. FWS, and NPS Lands

[Kirk Gittings]

Just out of curiosity—how do you respond to this sort of nonsense?

In that case it was simple I was there to photograph my class photographing the church.

But in cases where I am shooting LF for exhibitions and print sales I say I am a professional photographer but today I am just shooting for myself. If that doesn't do it I drag out a copy of the regs. and try and educate them. This usually really gets their back up though.

[Kirk Gittings]

Interesting comment about the Pecos Nat. Monument Kirk. I had a similar squabble about my commercial intent using my TK45 on a tripod with a light meter for fine art work about four years ago. The ranger was pretty abrupt and wanted to see my permit. I would have thought that LF use was fairly frequent there and there would be some familiarity with the process. Others around with digi P&S seemed to not arouse any suspicion.

Per Jeffs comment on response; I explained I was a fine art amateur photographer with no commercial intent; although he was polite and just said he'd prefer that I leave. So I packed it up since I had bigger fish to fry.

But this experience is unusual for me. I've spent thousands of hours on BLM and Nat Park and Monument lands with almost never any interference from an official.

I'm guessing that negative interactions occur as a function of "Time spent in the Field" so the actual frequency of objectionable interaction is very low to non existent.

I have vastly more frequent problems with local police and private entities.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

Interestingly. That same trip Jan Pietrzak was there shooting his 6x17 behemoth and the same ranger didn't say a word to him except how are you doing.

[Nathan Potter]

There is a more disappointing aspect to being interrupted and even harassed while doing photography. I can't always really find fault with the individual transgressor since with some discussion and explanation of intent a certain degree of friendliness can result. The real issue for me is the interruption of that moment of concentration on a subject that I consider a near religious experience.

LF image making is a very personnel endeavor and finding and framing a scene requires a sort of "baring of one's soul to the subject" - a deeply emotional experience. Interruption by some official or even a friendly and casual observer can be very unnerving to me and ruinous to the moment. I can have a hard time recovering from such intrusions and so most often I have to just quit the scene and perhaps return later.

Just my strange philosophical bent where almost nothing is more important than immortalizing a slice of my life on film for posterity. To deny me this is to deny me my life.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Kirk Gittings]

Agreed. Right this minute I am doing an AIR at the Petrified Forrest. They made me put an "official" magnetic sign on my truck that says "Petrified Forest Artist-in-Residence". Since I am largely shooting near my truck I get all kinds of unwanted attention. I would MUCH rather be just some anonymous shmoe with a weird camera.

[Jan Pietrzak]

Lets see how to I answer this and still keep my friendship with Kirk.
1. I am nicer and more friendly.
2. I look stupid and then they leave me alone.
3. My camera is not extinct, oh you said behemoth not mammoth, sorry.
4. I was bigger than the Ranger.
5. I told him what I was doing and that we had a class from SFUAD of International Students. And that started the conversation.

Don't get me wrong I have had my share of run-ins with Ranger. One was in Death Valley NM (yes not park) He was a total jerk all the way down to his spit shined black boots. When I was back the next winter I asked about him. Some of the Rangers I knew told he had gotten transferred down to Gila for the summer nice place to be for the summer. I always wondered how much time he spent shinning those black boots.

Some Parks, I have been left alone and some Parks I have been hassled. I have never been shut down. That said, I know what will happen on the next trip.

Jan

[Kirk Gittings]

Lets see how to I answer this and still keep my friendship with Kirk.
1. I am nicer and more friendly.
2. I look stupid and then they leave me alone.
3. My camera is not extinct, oh you said behemoth not mammoth, sorry.
4. I was bigger than the Ranger.
5. I told him what I was doing and that we had a class from SFUAD of International Students. And that started the conversation.

Don't get me wrong I have had my share of run-ins with Ranger. One was in Death Valley NM (yes not park) He was a total jerk all the way down to his spit shined black boots. When I was back the next winter I asked about him. Some of the Rangers I knew told he had gotten transferred down to Gila for the summer nice place to be for the summer. I always wondered how much time he spent shinning those black boots.

Some Parks, I have been left alone and some Parks I have been hassled. I have never been shut down. That said, I know what will happen on the next trip.

Jan

[Chauncey Walden]

Knowing you two, Jan probably pointed at Kirk and said "you ought to hassle that guy." Hey Kirk, while you're down at the petrified forest try to learn the secret of the perpetual woody;-)

[Heroique]

I wish I had some dramatic showdowns to share. I’ve had none.

Over the years, by the main paved roads, or in the backcountry, I’ve had numerous NP rangers drive by me, or hike near me, as I work next to my Ries. In almost every case, I’ve initiated contact – mostly, with a distant wave – like I’m expecting them, or glad to see them. I think this may be my secret for never being hassled or challenged. Ever. After hundreds of encounters. Over a few decades.

Or, it might have little to do with me, and everything to do with the attitude of rangers in Olympic NP and North Cascades NP, though that sounds unlikely. I doubt they’re different from rangers elsewhere, from Florida to Alaska. Maybe I’ve just been very lucky.

Now, a request to see a backcountry permit, or fishing permit, etc., is another story...

[Jeff Conrad]

I'd take that old Galen column with a grain of salt

I’m sure Rowell got the information second hand, so who knows what really happened? But I’ve heard enough similar reports—some from people here—that I have no problem taking Rowell’s column at face value. I have a bit less patience with some of the hysterical reactions to it, although I confess that at the time that column freaked me out a bit.

I haven’t been hassled by anyone in the BLM, FS, or NPS, and I’ve only been approached once in California state parks—perhaps I’ve been lucky. And I’ve spent little time in state parks in the Los Angeles area (e.g., Malibu Creek) where there’s a lot of commercial filming and enforcement is more aggressive. To be honest, I can probably easily count on both hands the number of times I’ve even encountered rangers. I have had a few less pleasant encounters with local yokels, but even then it’s been a pretty minor issue.

[Jeff Conrad]

Is there any meat in this issue for the ACLU to chew on ?. . .First Amendmendment or something?

The ACLU have recently joined a number of cases involving the right to photograph police as protected by the First Amendment, and in most cases, have prevailed. I’m not sure what we’re talking about here is the same thing, though. Some organizations have maintained that taking any photographs is protected, but I think it’s far from established.

We should bear in mind that, at least formally, the rules will change on September 23, so our discussion of previous experience may be irrelevant. The new rule may raise some due process issues—but I think we need to see what transpires. And I’m not sure this is the type of issue that grabs the ACLU’s attention anyway.