Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Old drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) vs new drum or flatbed

  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3

    Question Old drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) vs new drum or flatbed

    Hi,

    I may get a hold on a Scanview Scanmate 5000 and I’m wondering if it will give the results I need. I mean how does the quality compare to a scan done by a pro lab on a newer Imacon (or Hasselblad as it’s called now) or a newer drum scanner? And how will the quality be compared to an Epson v750?

    I assume that the sharpness will be really good with the scanmate, but how are the colors and tonality? I read the blog post linked to below and Simon Kennedy says about the color and tonality that there is “a difference that is striking in a similar way that editing RAW digital files gives much better results than editing in-camera jpegs”. But is that true for the Scanmate 5000? I mean since the lab he used probably use a newer drum scanner…

    http://www.simonkennedy.net/blog/arc...d-vs-drum-scan

    I want to be able to print the pictures really big for exhibitions. So sharpness, color and tonality are all really important to me. If the Scanmate 5000 just gives me OK results, then I’ll rather send the important pictures to a pro lab and scan the rest on a flatbed.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Petaluma, CA
    Posts
    2,089

    Re: Old drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) vs new drum or flatbed

    The drum scan is the ultimate in quality. I don't have experience with the 5000 so I won't speak to it.... however, consumer level scanners like the 750 won't compare. The Imacon/Hasselblad uses a CCD sensor, just like the 750, but has better lenses. It's still going thru another lens... and it is still using a CCD vs PMT to scan.

    In my opinion, if you want to print large, as you suggest, then you should at least send the "important pictures" to be drum scanned.

    That said, I wouldn't "send my scans to a Pro Lab". Labs are organizations set up to work on volume. Some are better than others, certainly. However, most have someone that puts the scan on the scanner and presses the button. You get what you get. If you ask here, or on the scan high-end list you will find that the professional scanner operators will all agree that the operator is the largest factor in getting top-level scans. This is because there are a lot of choices available to the operator that define what the scan, and resulting print, ultimately looks like. There are a number of very good independent scanner operators here, including myself, who would be glad to help you.

    To do an effective scan, you must know what the photographer is trying to accomplish aesthetically. Its important to learn your client's needs, which involves talking to each other, time, etc. The idea is to make a scan that makes their goals possible. Often this means spreading the tones out so they can be grabbed in photoshop (with a mask) and manipulated. A good scanner operator will know how to do this and will get you what you need. You can certainly learn this yourself, but it takes a little doing. There are no books on the subject.


    Lenny
    EigerStudios
    Museum Quality Drum Scanning and Printing

  3. #3
    photobymike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tampa Florida
    Posts
    687

    Re: Old drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) vs new drum or flatbed

    well sometimes i scan 250 negs in a night with my 750 Epson scanner.... drum is good but i have a need for speed.... its all about a quality vs speed compromise

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    47

    Re: Old drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) vs new drum or flatbed

    I second Lenny and Mike's comments.

    I have both the Epson 750 and the Scanview 5000. Both are great, but very different beasts. The Scanview is a nice piece of gear, and it is definitely better in terms of color depth, dynamic range, and resolution than the 750. For the stuff that is going to be printed at large sizes for a gallery, these differences will probably matter. It is also surprisingly small for a drum scanner - my wife didn't kill me when I brought it home.

    Pay attention to what Kennedy says at the end of his blog entry - the workflow is definitely slower, and that has an effect on how much of it you will want to do. Wet mounting, running a 10 year old Mac, operating unfamiliar and sophisticated equipment and software all add to the time cost. And the scans themselves are not ridiculously slow, but they do take time. On the plus side, I find I don't have to do much spotting of my files after a wet-mounted drum scan. That alone can save at least an hour on the back end.

    Setting up one of these beasts is also not for the faint of heart unless you are getting a system with everything to make it work. You can get it all to work on modern hardware, but there are lots of software and hardware incompatibilities to navigate. I just set it up with a ten year old Mac to simplify matters. It's also nice if you can get your hands on a dongle to run Color Quartet. It is a complex tool, but quite powerful.

    Since I am just a hobbyist and don't hang big prints in galleries, 95-99% of what I do does not really merit the treatment it gets from the drum scanner. I love the fact that I can slap negs alone or in sleeves on my flatbed and knock out a dozen contact sheets quickly so I can see what I have to work with. This would not be part of my workflow if I only had a drum scanner. I get pretty darn good results at smaller print sizes with the flatbed.

    Good luck,
    Chris
    -------------------------
    Linhof Technika III-5
    Mamiya RB67

  5. #5
    Still Developing
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Leeds, UK
    Posts
    579

    Re: Old drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) vs new drum or flatbed

    Quote Originally Posted by nils View Post
    Hi,

    I may get a hold on a Scanview Scanmate 5000 and I’m wondering if it will give the results I need. I mean how does the quality compare to a scan done by a pro lab on a newer Imacon (or Hasselblad as it’s called now) or a newer drum scanner? And how will the quality be compared to an Epson v750?

    I assume that the sharpness will be really good with the scanmate, but how are the colors and tonality? I read the blog post linked to below and Simon Kennedy says about the color and tonality that there is “a difference that is striking in a similar way that editing RAW digital files gives much better results than editing in-camera jpegs”. But is that true for the Scanmate 5000? I mean since the lab he used probably use a newer drum scanner…

    http://www.simonkennedy.net/blog/arc...d-vs-drum-scan

    I want to be able to print the pictures really big for exhibitions. So sharpness, color and tonality are all really important to me. If the Scanmate 5000 just gives me OK results, then I’ll rather send the important pictures to a pro lab and scan the rest on a flatbed.

    Thanks in advance
    I scanned Simon's negative on an old Howtek 4500 and can honestly say you'd be hard pushed to get a better result out of a flatbed. The only flatbed I've seen that does better only does it for negative and that is the Screen Cezanne. It surpasses every scanner I've used to get fine detail out of negatives without compromising on grain/noise.

    Flatbeds just don't do a great job on transparencies though - I've tried an Eversmart, Lanovia and Cezanne and they all suffer from flare (bright areas bleeding into dark areas) to some extent. Only a drum scan avoids this flare.

    In short, I would highly recommend the Scanmate over any flatbed or the Imacon. That said, a very well maintained 959 Imacon does a great job but older Imacons and poorly maintained 959s drop in standard quite quickly.
    Tim
    Still Developing at http://www.timparkin.co.uk and scanning at http://cheapdrumscanning.com

  6. #6
    Corran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    GA, USA
    Posts
    4,946

    Re: Old drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) vs new drum or flatbed

    Tim - do you have any profile settings for negative film for the Cezanne?
    Not to derail the thread. Just been fooling lately with calibrating to certain neg films and thought I'd ask.
    Bryan | Blog | YouTube | Instagram
    All comments and thoughtful critique welcome

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    140

    Re: Old drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) vs new drum or flatbed

    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Flatbeds just don't do a great job on transparencies though - I've tried an Eversmart, Lanovia and Cezanne and they all suffer from flare (bright areas bleeding into dark areas) to some extent. Only a drum scan avoids this flare
    True, they do suffer from flare, but it can be significantly reduced by moving the film away from the calibration window and careful masking of the entire bed minus the scanned frame.
    Scanmate is a good and fast machine but it is more than 15 years old design and implementation and also suffers from flare. The color management is not straightforward either. Its is a no match to a High End drum scanner. Its ability to retrieve details from extreme shadows left me wanting for more. A lot depends on the software. For instance, ColorTrio did the best job, (but it is not color managed), closely followed by ColorQuartet in 8-bit RAW. The 16 bit mode is a no match due to very weak performance in the shadows. Anyway, in my side by side tests an Eversmart ProII constantly produced much sharper images (sharpening off) and did see deeper into the shadow than a Scanmate 5K.

    Before buying one make sure it passes both Focus and White Calibration. Make a few test scans at 5000 dpi optical and give each scan SmartSharpen treatment with Radius 1, Amount 500% to see at 100% if there are any register errors (jaggies) on the scans.

    SergeyT.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    32

    Re: Old drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) vs new drum or flatbed

    hi,

    I'm curious if this is a software issue, the scanmate not being able to deliver the same dmax in 16bit as in 8bit?

    pjotr

  9. #9
    Still Developing
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Leeds, UK
    Posts
    579

    Re: Old drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) vs new drum or flatbed

    Quote Originally Posted by Corran View Post
    Tim - do you have any profile settings for negative film for the Cezanne?
    Not to derail the thread. Just been fooling lately with calibrating to certain neg films and thought I'd ask.
    No I use a technique described in the recent issue of On Landscape. Basically I use the custom options of the auto curves layer in photoshop. Set the clipping to 9% for the black and white point and then choose the tone for the black and white point so I get no clipping. Seems to work better than anything else I've tried - although Fuji Colorkit does a very nice job..

    Tim
    Still Developing at http://www.timparkin.co.uk and scanning at http://cheapdrumscanning.com

  10. #10
    Still Developing
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Leeds, UK
    Posts
    579

    Re: Old drum scanner (Scanmate 5000) vs new drum or flatbed

    Hi Sergey,

    I'm surprised the scanmate suffers from flare. Didn't realise you could get flare with a drum scanner as it's only reading one pixel at a time with the rest of the film masked off. OK - I've seen small amounts of 'glow' in the order of a few pixels at hard black/white edges but not the gross veiling flare that gives you a variable black point across your whole image - very difficult to get rid of, especially if you really want to push the shadows hard.

    Tim
    Still Developing at http://www.timparkin.co.uk and scanning at http://cheapdrumscanning.com

Similar Threads

  1. Scanview 5000 drum scanner
    By tor kviljo in forum Digital Hardware
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 23-Sep-2012, 14:06

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •