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Thread: FS/WTB Transaction Problems

  1. #1
    Moderator Ralph Barker's Avatar
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    FS/WTB Transaction Problems

    We have made a couple of changes in an attempt to address issues with unsatisfactory transactions stemming from the For Sale sub-forum.

    1. Unsatisfactory transactions from threads in the the "For Sale/Wanted" sub-forum may be reported using ONE post that states the following: "Unresolved issue with _______ on this sale." It must be reported in, and only in, the specific thread in which the item was offered, and must not provide further details.

    2. A new Buyer-Seller Advisories sub-forum has been added in the Community section:

    Buyer/Seller Advisories--Any reports about the outcomes of transactions with providers of products and services to large-format photographers must be made in the "Buyer/Seller Advisories" sub-forum. The purpose of this sub-forum is to provide a service to large-format photographers who need to know whom to trust in a small market. All posts in other forums complaining about specific transactions will be moved to this forum, and repeated mispostings by a person may result in moderator action. Threads in the Buyer/Seller Advisories forum must be:
    -Factual
    -Unemotional
    -Related only to what actually happened.

    Comments about the character or honesty of the person described will be deleted without notice, and repeated negative personal comments will result in moderator actions. Remember, personal attacks and abuse to other site users is not allowed on this forum. Demands for action are also not appropriate anywhere on the Large Format Photography Forum, and will be removed. The LFPF does not provide any mechanism for seeking resolution of an unsatisfactory transaction--resolution must be pursued outside the forum. This sub-forum is for simple reports of outcomes of transactions here and elsewhere. If the transaction occurred elsewhere, then it must involve transactions of products or services relevant to the large-format community.


    This should provide a means of sharing issues regarding transactions here, or elsewhere, in a factual manner. Moderators will still not get involved in attempting to resolve those issues, and use of the FS/WTB sub-forum remains an at your own risk proposition for both buyers and sellers.

  2. #2
    IanG's Avatar
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    Re: FS/WTB Transaction Problems

    While I think the sentiments are right I'm not sure it's easy to make it work & enforce.

    I don't advocate naming and shaming, a few of us (all members here and on APUG) had issues with a poster/seller and all agreed it was ineptitude rather than dishonestya nd help from moderators got the matters resolved quickly and simply.

    The number of bad transactions is very much lower than Ebay.

    Ian

  3. #3
    Format Omnivore Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    Re: FS/WTB Transaction Problems

    Just one request:

    Could the forums in the Community section be displayed in a different order?

    The current explanation/disclaimer text is now HUGE, and buries the forums beneath them.
    "It's the way to educate your eyes. Stare. Pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something. You are not here long." - Walker Evans

  4. #4
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: FS/WTB Transaction Problems

    Maybe we could just add a ton more verbiage to the forums below to even things out .
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 67
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  5. #5
    Land-Scapegrace Heroique's Avatar
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    Re: FS/WTB Transaction Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Barker View Post
    Threads in the Buyer/Seller Advisories forum must be:
    -Factual
    -Unemotional
    -Related only to what actually happened.
    I can already see “fact” vs. “perception of fact” leading to a whole lot of trouble here.

  6. #6
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: FS/WTB Transaction Problems

    There is no fact without a perception of it. Is there useful wording that is not open to interpretation? Please offer us alternatives.
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 67
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  7. #7

    Re: FS/WTB Transaction Problems

    Thanks for doing this and generally for moderating the forum.
    I can a see a whole bucket of worms opening up for you but good on you for doing it.

    I can see "Joe sold me a broken widget but told me it was like new" threads popping up and maybe that is a good way for this to be policed. My only fear is that the whole buy/sell thing becomes a huge burden to the moderators and gets killed off.

    A simple reminder to all might be: "we're all big boys and girls and responsible for our own deals" and leave it at that.

    Anyway, thanks again.

  8. #8
    Moderator
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    Re: FS/WTB Transaction Problems

    Fact is, we've had a whole bucket of worms already. We've not been consistent in how we approach things, and this inconsistency has put us in uncomfortable positions.

    Remember, users of the for-sale forum do so at their own risk. This isn't just buyers who take the risk, it's also sellers. Sellers are no more able to hide from that risk than are buyers, but our policies have made it possible for them to do so.

    We believe that it is a service to large-format photographers to allow discussion of problems.

    I'm also concerned that the silver-tonqued in any dispute will come out on top. But remember that all other forum guidelines apply. Personal attacks, insulting language, demands for action, or threats will not be tolerated. So, if one has a complaint to air, stick to what happened, and onlly what happened. Don't draw conclusions about the character or honest of the subject of the complain. Remove all statements that border on those things that are not allowed.

    And remember that the forum, it's readers, and the moderators have no role in determining the trutch of a statement. The other party may respond if he chooses to, following the same guidelines.

    If it can't be controlled, then we'll try something else, but that will likely lead to removing the for-sale forum altogether.

    Rick "who has been in the middle of too many disputes" Denney

  9. #9
    Land-Scapegrace Heroique's Avatar
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    Re: FS/WTB Transaction Problems

    I think the instructions are ideal and well meaning. The potential problem – if I correctly understand how the sub-forum will work – is that any photographer’s accounting of the “facts” of an unhappy transaction will, no matter how sincere, be open to interpretation – especially by the other party. And if the other party is a member here too, well, that can naturally lead to plenty of publicized misgivings. “Here are the facts,” by one person, then in response: “HERE are the facts,” by the second person, back and forth, back and forth. At least they’ll be in one place, but only an angel would predict it will be a place to document “what actually happened.”

  10. #10
    Lachlan 717
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    Re: FS/WTB Transaction Problems

    To be honest, I think that the vast majority of this new section will be taken up with positive feedback, just as the majority of feedback on eBay is positive.

    Perhaps the Thread title should be made to start with "Positive - Seller's Name/Title", "Negative - Seller's Name/Title" or "Neutral - Seller's Name/Title" (much as the For Sale section requires FS , WTB or WTT)?
    Lachlan.

    You miss 100% of the shots you never take. -- Wayne Gretzky

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