"Beginners-Mind" (sho-shin)

[Peter De Smidt]

A beginner approaches a task with on open mind. They do what feels natural to accomplish the task, but being a beginner, they don't do the task well. In order to improve, they learn technique from a master, or through trial and error. During this time, they are very conscious of technique; and, in the very beginning, focusing on the technique instead of the task, they often do worse than when they started, but after years of proper practice they begin to internalize proper technique. Now when faced with the task, they can approach it without thinking about technique. In other words, they can face the task in a similar manner to how a beginner did, with and open mind and doing what comes naturally. The difference is that what now comes naturally is the result of years of practice, and the result will be very different.

[Pete Suttner]

This reads a little like Ann Rand vs the karate kid.

But I get it. I am at a certain age that I realize that life is short, but that peace is possible "in the moment". I photographed this morning, didn't take along a lot of mind clutter, and simply enjoyed the morning. 14 sheets that's a lot for me.

What's interesting to me is the photographic process, not just the moment of capture. Can I carry that state of mind throughout the process from loading the holders to drying the print? Just to load the Canon there is a Japanese movement called Mingei / Soetsu Yanagi but I've never seen it translated in photographic terms....

[Randy]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this book - "Tao of Photography: Seeing Beyond Seeing". Seems appropriate for this thread. I have read it through a few times.

[C_Remington]

Clearing my mind (and life) of clutter is key - to me anyway. Keep it simple, stay away from drama and negativity, and laugh everyday as much as you can...

Very easy to do when you don't have that much clutter and drama to begin with.

[sun of sand]

Challenging an accepted paradigm puts the burden on the challenger to do more than just say, "You're wrong".

Rick "who defended you and the concept of balance in that composition thread, if you will recall" Denney

doesn't someone who believes they're correct need to do more than say youre wrong to the person saying theyre wrong?

but then we may as well go right to religion and ask is it up to the naysayer to disprove god or up to those who believe in him to do so
if you cant prove him you have to accept you have nothing
you have beliefs which are based on nothing
i think this is funny because those who do believe say pejoratively of those that dont that they believe in nothing

Im not saying beginners mind does or doesnt exist im asking whether you can achieve it simply by reading some words about what being in it achieves for you
I can't tell you to go get in the zone or go practice getting into it easier but i can tell you what it's like to experience it

you can tell me what beginners ming allows me but nobody -i don't believe- has said anything about how to go about getting it

walk 500 feet? I can dribble all day and those seeing me dribbling all day may just believe im in the dribbling zone when all i'm actually doing is dribbling all day ..or walking a lot
if you've never experienced zone you could easily tell those watching you dribble that you are in it and they'd likely never know any better
Only in repeatedly doing something incredibly difficult can you prove it
others watching it suddenly become aware of what it IS and what it then isnt even if they have no skill in it themselves
clear your mind? How? is this step 1 or step 22.

we must clear our minds of all clutter and see the wonderful possibilities
Bruce Lee or Lee Bruce from down the street?
A master doesn't need to read it he's done it
a beginner has it already
expert?

ok so beginners mind is for experts who don't know how to make it into mastery?
Is the point of this thread to achieve this mastery or to brag you're an expert?
If you cannot explain it
why say it
I tend to believe masters are selfless. Masters need to be because without it you lose possibility and if beginners mind enables to be open to all possibility being incredibly flexible you cant shut off anything that could bring the necessity for it

So why then would an expert hoping for mastery not even begin to try to explain to me how I'm wrong
wouldn't that be working towards something while not working at it?
where is the selflessness?
where is teacher?
where is student exceeds master?
Lots of holding back of knowledge and since I believe what I believe I'm inclined to think of all these "experts" as nothing of the sort



i don't remember those who "defend" me
im not here to be right and make sides out of an issue im here asking questions of those who believe they are


there may be a couple of inconsistencies in this post
maybe not
im pretty beat and not really in the mood

[sun of sand]

A beginner approaches a task with on open mind. They do what feels natural to accomplish the task, but being a beginner, they don't do the task well. In order to improve, they learn technique from a master, or through trial and error. During this time, they are very conscious of technique; and, in the very beginning, focusing on the technique instead of the task, they often do worse than when they started, but after years of proper practice they begin to internalize proper technique. Now when faced with the task, they can approach it without thinking about technique. In other words, they can face the task in a similar manner to how a beginner did, with and open mind and doing what comes naturally. The difference is that what now comes naturally is the result of years of practice, and the result will be very different.

beginner approaches a task with on open mind
but being a beginner, they don't do the task well
then ...why would you EVER want to be in beginners mind?
C'mon now
that's gross.

beginners mind does not equal beginners luck but beginners luck does equal beginners mind.

In other words, they can face the task in a similar manner to how a beginner did, with and open mind and doing what comes naturally.


This would be more properly deemed Masters Mind.
technique without thinking of technique
just doing reflexively according to the circumstance

proper technique
that's another thing
you don't have to have proper technique to accomplish the goal
you have to have mastery of your technique in accomplishing the goal

[PrabuVenkat]

Would like to draw your attention to a portion of what I commented in a different thread :

When you look at Las Maninas and think about that project of his, what would you say of Picasso ? a master ? a beginner ? a master with a beginner's mind ? a beginner with a master's mind ?

and am tempted to finish with the subject of that thread: "what does a photograph tell about (the mind of) a photographer ?"

great day, folks!

;-p r a b u!

[John Conway]

Man... all I wanted to do was let people know how much I enjoyed that article as I read it in my pickup truck all by my lonesome. I sure have a way of firing things up around here.

[Heroique]

Maybe there’s more to come!

After all, most of us who have participated seem to forget that Zen (“sho-shin”) has an antipathy to lengthy verbalizations.

We’re also forgetting that Zen encourages laughter, since it keeps the ego in its proper relationship to the universe.

[jcoldslabs]

after all, most of us who have participated seem to forget that zen (“sho-shin”) has an antipathy to lengthy verbalizations.

+1