Soooooooooooo much easier said than done, but worth aspiring to.Originally Posted by barnninny
Jonathan
Soooooooooooo much easier said than done, but worth aspiring to.
Jonathan
again
how could someone write book after book and give lectures and private as well as group instruction and have disciples and
let alone hundreds -if not tens of thousands- of others "specializing" in the same professionally in every walk of life
.....If everyone understands completely after reading one paragraph on largeformatphotographyforum by someone who read it in a magazine article outside the supermarket the day before?
Really? Either those professing knowledge must be in general -lying
or those writing the endless books and charging for one on one instruction yada yada must be charlatans
Isn't that the easiest thing to believe here?
EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD UNDERSTANDS after MINUTES of thought what others have been trying to learn for ......
If we can understand the need of the chess masters for uninterrupted focus, we can also understand the precise attention we must bring to our meditation
Uninterrrupted focus. part of Beginners mind? If a chess champ needs uninterrupted focus to perform does it seem logical that any joe blow knows HOW to focus as deeply with so little practice?
as long as we continue to learn, welcome new ideas and ways of doing things, and continually expand our understanding of ourselves and the world around us, then we are engaging in the ultimate creativity of the self
that continuing act of creativity keeps us young
If the way they present to you seems easy, it is probably false. Everything takes effort. It does not stand to reason that spirituality will be established simply by sitting in the presense of a master. In mass gatherings, a mild hysteria and herd mentality are cleverly exploited. It takes daily work, so how could you get it at a rally? Indulgence is not Tao.
Doesn't then Beginners Mind take a lot of practice to achieve? It's not some dumb and superficial "forget about the work and appointments and look at the trees" mentality
it takes a level of proficiency of probably a few things
you don't just show up open to the worlds offerings
A newborn is open to everything because everything is a new experience
I don't want to fall off a chair at my age and I would rather not take more crappy photographs
so you have to practice ..creatively. Find what works and what doesn't. When you know what works you will be able to learn many ways of achieving that winning result if you practice even more ..creatively.
then youre a master
Have fun clipping out quotations and gluing to them to your tripod
If you can clip you can teach
I have it on my bookshelf...I should read it again. It has been 30 or so years.
Vaughn
I would say you may as well throw it out. lol
It's not in the owning or the reading
It's in the daily practice of what you have learned in that book to give you a start
I'd say that if you had been practicing it for 30 years you should have so internalized the true meaning that you'd be "at one" with it
If you can't remember much of what it communicating then you haven't bothered practicing it
You've made it this far without it
might as well just give it to someone who may want to utilize it
Please dont get me wrong
I think it's all self-evident myself
but i damn well know there are a lot of quitters in this world
Sun, for a guy who thinks words are not that useful, you sure are writing a lot of them.
Being a beginner is not the same thing as being a novice. The idea is not to be a beginner, but to be like a beginner. Christian teaching says the same thing: Be like a child. The point is to have experience, and highly developed skill, but not to see the world through the lens of skills. Rather, see the world for what it is, and then apply skill. Only the most skilled are able to do this.'
Making art is not playinig chess. In chess, the objective is to take the opponent's king. It is quite possible to adopt creative ("infinitely" creative) strategies to do so, and the more one knows, the more one can put those strategies together to seem creative to those who don't know those strategies. But it's not art, it's craft.
Musicians seek so much command of technique that they are free to make any musical choice. Constrained technique constrains musical choices, limiting the person to the confines of their own expertise. Complete mastery frees them to be childlike in their perceptions of the emotions that go into the music. That does not mean childlike (i.e., unskilled) in their expression. Roger Bobo (well-known tuba master and soloist for 50 years) has said that all music is either a love song or a pirate song. That is a childlike perception, but expressing those perceptions requires great master of skill and technique.
But the path to that freedom is more than just technical mastery. It is also a willingness to be open to perceptions as a child (or beginner) is open to perceptions, and that requires clearing one's mind of distractions, including distractions caused by struggling with skills and technique.
This is easier said than done, and more easily understood than applied. That's why people can get what Ken wrote, and still struggle to apply it.
Rick "maybe a little less caffeine and a little more attention to punctuation" Denney
I disagree. The me that read it 30 years ago is quite a bit different than the me now. Re-reading it would bring a whole different meaning to me now. My past experiences would cause me to react to the words from a different perspective; trips abroad, packing mules for ten seasons, 25 years of marriage, three 16-year-old sons, the readings I have done since then, a divorce, and all the rest.
Your results may differ...
Perhaps it would help sos if we put this in terms of an athletic pursuit, since that seems to be how he sees the world. In kung fu, the original Chinese word for what we call a "black belt" actually meant "beginner." You had reached a stage of sufficient mastery of the fundamentals that you could begin a lifelong exploration of what kung fu really was. The fundamentals weren't kung fu; they were the tools you needed in order to begin learning kung fu.
Same here. Mastery of the skills to make the exposure you want in any conditions isn't photography. It's a tool that enables you to begin photography. It's necessary, but not sufficient.
SINAR F+ 4x5 wearing a Fujinon 150/5.6 W
Indeed. And it's why I said you were my hero. You make so many interesting photographs out of just what is immediately around you. No need to trek somewhere to find subjects; you see subjects in what you experience every day.
SINAR F+ 4x5 wearing a Fujinon 150/5.6 W
sun of sand,
It's good to hear from you again. To challenge your reasoning, I thought of something. What if you appreciate the vintage works of a Master?
Then, can it be said that the Master was great from the beginning?
Let's just begin now,
(dark slide then cleared its throat)
from thy beginning.
struggle to apply it
This is my point
Anybody can read it and say they understand it
But if you can't put it into use then you don't fully comprehend how to go about doing it
Proof is in the pudding, ain't it.
perfect practice
If a novice poker player reads the rulebook they can say they read the rulebook
they understand the words
they know the hands and percentages
but do they understand what they have read?
Not if they still play like a novice they don't
So if everyone here understands what was written
how many are accomplishing it?
Is the original poster?
I believe it takes a good bit of skill to concentrate that deeply
you don't get perfect focus by reading in a book you have to have perfect focus and I don't believe you get it after just walking 500 feet
"more easily understood than applied"
I believe it's easy to say you understand it and that is why appyling it is so difficult
you haven't actually practiced or thought strongly enough about how to practice it in order to have it
"the original Chinese word for what we call a "black belt" actually meant "beginner." You had reached a stage of sufficient mastery"
yes
and now the entire thread has a beginners mind/zen/tao black belt because they read the OP's beginning thread post? ..or even Ken Lee's entire article?
This is what I'm saying and been saying
sufficient mastery
there has to be a level of mastery in however many things in order to gain beginners mind
you don't just show up and say "beginners mind time!"
In fact, once beginners mind is achieved you then should have beginners mind ALL THE TIME
what are the fundamentals to achieving beginners mind
how do you achieve those things
The fundamentals aren't photography; they are the tools you need in order to begin learning photography.
The rules of composition is not photography
balance is photography
learn the rules of composition in order to begin learning balance which makes good photography possible
"What if you appreciate the vintage works of a Master?
Then, can it be said that the Master was great from the beginning?"
I've mentioned this in the past somewhere
I'll say this cause im short on time
the master has udnerstood from the beginning that in order to become great you cannot quit
and that means quit learning/practicing not just quit "playing the game"
therefore
the master has always had the mind of a master
so in -short on time-
Uh
yes. Always a master
OF what it takes to be a master they were one. What is the diference?
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